I'm going to have a word with someone from my orchid society who's recently started a small orchid buisness. He might have some ideas how this could work.

These mini-flasks would be perfect and as far as I am aware flasks do not fall under CITES and no permit is required to export/import ?

Ni CITES necessary, but you still need phyto certificates for flasks. Not sure about import/export permits though.

I've done some deflasking of Phals, and can help out if we go through with this project. Deflasking other orchids is similar, so no worries there. If we do a Catt or similar, it will be 4-5 years to bloom them. Phals might take less time, maybe 2-3 years depending on how big they are in flask. Not sure about others. Tolumnia could be fun, and are small?

Also, I'll be attending a few shows coming up, Ashville show in March I think, probably Redlands, and maybe some others. Not that the US is the difficult dance partner here, but every person counts.

If it's true flasks can travel without cites, then maybe Roelke might be a possible source for everyone?

I actually have to email them about something anyway: shall I ask them how much it would cost to send flasks to the States and Canada while I'm at it? And what paperwork would be needed?

Don't take my word for the no CITES thing. I've read so many things over the years about this stuff that I've lost track of the requirements... I'm about 90% sure that flasks don't need CITES, but it may also depend on the country.

I had a bit of a look, and I think it might actually be correct. It sounds like possibly you'd still need some paperwork, but not full CITES. I think possibly a free import certificate for the US end (sorry to the Canadians, US is what I found) and some documentation from the vendor end.

Here's what Schwerter charge for shipping outside Europe (nb this is for plants, not flasks...)

Shipping costs 39,90 € - 79,90 €
Shipping free of soil (eg USA, Japan) 10,00 €
Plant protection certification (eg USA, Canada) 35,00 €

Here's an AOS article: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...3SUE9JyWD0Gx4Q

I'm thinking it might still mean one person recieving the stuff and passing it on to keep costs reasonable. But at least if it's mini flasks from Roelke then that person wouldn't have to be re-flasking or hardening off seedlings: they'd just need to send them on. That is if Roelke charge a similar amount to Schwerter!

You may find that some species are subject to limits at the supplier end as a way to manage any cites issues. If I buy orchid flasks from Bali they are only allowed to sell a certain number of some species each year so if they are over their limit I wouldn't be able to have the flask shipped even if they have plenty of flasks for sale.

I still think that the easiest way involving the least hassle is getting flasks/seedlings via growers at shows. No paperwork to deal with.

And actually, seeing that Americans are always the majority in projects, if there's any flasks travelling from one continent to the other, it makes more sense for EU to get them from the US than the other way around.

But then if shipping freshly deflasked seedlings is as impossible as you say, then we should just abandon the idea altogether. It just creates an entirely different set of headaches and hassles.

I think the export limit thing might apply to Ecuagenera. But hopefully we'd still be able to get something if we bought from them.

Good points Camille. Though I think it's worth investigating how much flasks sent from Roelke would be. If it does work out reasonable for those over the pond, then it might work to go that way.

Re posting deflasked seedlings. Thinking about it, I think it might be possible, if not ideal. I think you'd have to send in an airproof baggy or tub with a bit of moss. Then the person at the other end would have to treat them as if they'd deflasked them themselves: which means very clean conditions to start (microwave the moss...) as they were sterile in the flask, and gradually reducing humidity (someone told me they don't have enough of the pores on their leaves to control their water levels, as they didn't need them in flask, so they need time to develop more).

Of course if we could find the same flasks available both sides of the pond... that's why I thought violacea would be a good idea. Tolumnias might work too, especially if we don't insist on a partiucular one.