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  #1  
Old 09-17-2008, 02:17 PM
Learner Learner is offline
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Default Need advice on supplemental light

I guess I am in the dark about light. Around 9:00 a.m. my plant room (I call it a greenhouse) gets good morning sun for about 3 hours with light measuring about 3000 fc on the east side to 1000 on the SW. Around noon or 1:00 my mixed pine and hardwoods block the light and I get 300 to 500 fc. Around 4:00, another opening in the trees lets in filtered light about 1000 fc for a couple of hours. Is this enough light to have Phals, Dens and a couple of Catts bloom. They are growing and rooting in S/H, but I don't know about flowering. Also, I don't know what the light conditions will be when the leaves fall.

I really don't want to take out the trees because my wife will kill me. So if I need more light, I am thinking of supplemental lights and that's when the confusion increases.

Can anyone explain the terms, High Bay lighting and New Wave. Also Tec light.

I understand that T5 bulbs put out more light than T8 but I haven't seen a comparison report for the same bulb maker. Are T5 about 5000 lumens and T8 about 3000? This should be approximately 500 and 300 fc. Yes?

Am I correct that a two bulb T5 would add 1000 fc and four T8 bulbs would add 1200 fc? I ask this question because I can get full spectrum (5000K) T8 locally at HD, but I would have to order the T5 on the internet. That also holds for replacement bulbs. By price, I can get the four bulb T8, that I described, for less than $80 while the T5 set-up is a couple of hundred plus shipping.

And, the bottom line is: will 1200 fc plus the natural light give my plants enough light. Are the fc from the lamps directively additive to the fc from the sun or is there some interaction that I have missed? Will good reflection give me a substantial increase in fc?

I have read through past threads and things get a little confusing when all the different types of lights are discussed. I hope this all makes sense.

Oh, and I thought New Wave was a rock group.

Jim

Last edited by Learner; 09-17-2008 at 02:20 PM..
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2008, 05:18 PM
mayres mayres is offline
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Need advice on supplemental light Male
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Just a short note to start off the responses - bottom line is that if you want to stick with fluorescents you will NEED T5 fixtures to provide enough intensity for your medium to high light needs plants (like catts). You can also use high wattage CFL's if you choose (standard replacement curly CFL's in the market to replace tungsten bulbs do not provide enough light for high light needs orchids) this type of lighting, but you will also have to get those at a specialty store or online. T12 or T8 will need to be reserved for low light needs plants like paphs and phals - at least this has been my experience.
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2008, 05:20 PM
Ross Ross is offline
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There have been a ton of threads on this subject and perhaps Dorothy would join in with a list, but the short of the answers are:

T5 HO (high output) generally produce in the neighborhood of 5000 lumens when new. This is for 48" (nom) bulbs. A 4 tube, 48" fixture will generally produce 1800 foot candles 8" below the tubes. I have no idea on t8 fixtures, but it is significantly less.

I have a 8 tube 48" fixture and measured 3500 foot-candles at 8".

As to "enough", I feel for Phals, Paphs, and perhaps some Masdies, the 1200-1800 foot candles would be adequate to supplement strong natural light. This is what I do myself. My grow area is in a south-facing window with full sun for most of the day, but not every day. I run the lights (I use CF High Output in the window) 12-16 hours depending on winter or summer. My setup in this window looks like this:

These are 105watt CF and 54watt CF bulbs.
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2008, 06:38 PM
LinhT LinhT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
There have been a ton of threads on this subject and perhaps Dorothy would join in with a list, but the short of the answers are:

T5 HO (high output) generally produce in the neighborhood of 5000 lumens when new. This is for 48" (nom) bulbs. A 4 tube, 48" fixture will generally produce 1800 foot candles 8" below the tubes. I have no idea on t8 fixtures, but it is significantly less.

I have a 8 tube 48" fixture and measured 3500 foot-candles at 8".

As to "enough", I feel for Phals, Paphs, and perhaps some Masdies, the 1200-1800 foot candles would be adequate to supplement strong natural light. This is what I do myself. My grow area is in a south-facing window with full sun for most of the day, but not every day. I run the lights (I use CF High Output in the window) 12-16 hours depending on winter or summer. My setup in this window looks like this:

These are 105watt CF and 54watt CF bulbs.
Ross, I thought your 8 tube 48" fixture measured 3600fc at 11 inches?? This is the one you were gonna grow vegies under, I think? Did I miss something?
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2008, 07:53 PM
Ross Ross is offline
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Nope. You are correct! I was winging it with the response. 3600 at 11" is the correct figure. Sorry. Better check before I spout off next time
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2008, 08:01 PM
LinhT LinhT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
Nope. You are correct! I was winging it with the response. 3600 at 11" is the correct figure. Sorry. Better check before I spout off next time
No problem. Thanks for clarifying, got me worried for a second there. Ever since the day I joined OB, I've learned a great deal about light issues from you. Whenever Ross posts on a "light" thread, I ALWAYS read it.
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2008, 08:50 PM
Sandy4453 Sandy4453 is offline
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This subject always gets my head spinning. Isn't there a store like HD where you can get everything, already assembled for various sized shelving?

OK, kick me out of this thread. I'm hopeless.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2008, 09:05 PM
Ross Ross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy4453 View Post
This subject always gets my head spinning. Isn't there a store like HD where you can get everything, already assembled for various sized shelving?

OK, kick me out of this thread. I'm hopeless.
If there is, it will be a local hydroponics store, where they sell stuff designed for hydroponics growers. I am sure there are some in Fla. Here are a few links to try:

Gold Coast Hydroponics, hydroponic supplier
Sunshine Hydroponics
http://www.wormsway.com/stores/FL.asp
Miami Hydroponics Year Round Indoor Gardening | Hydro For Less
Home
Florida Hydroponics Supplies | Hydroponics Equipment in Florida

Last edited by Ross; 09-17-2008 at 09:11 PM..
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  #9  
Old 09-18-2008, 08:18 PM
Learner Learner is offline
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Thanks to y'all for describing your solutions to low light problems. It sounds like T5 lamps are the way to go. I guess I am still confounded as to why the same number of lumens from T8 lamps does not get the seal of approval. Probably not as efficient, but there is something to be said for local availability.

I will continue to try to learn about standard T5, New Wave and Tek lights. If I find anything relevant to our chids, I will pass it along in a new thread.
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2008, 08:31 PM
Sandy4453 Sandy4453 is offline
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WOW Ross! Thanks so much for these links. I'll definitely check these out. In case they don't come already assembled, will you come over and put it together for me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross View Post
If there is, it will be a local hydroponics store, where they sell stuff designed for hydroponics growers. I am sure there are some in Fla. Here are a few links to try:

Gold Coast Hydroponics, hydroponic supplier
Sunshine Hydroponics
Florida - Worm's Way
Miami Hydroponics Year Round Indoor Gardening | Hydro For Less
Home
Florida Hydroponics Supplies | Hydroponics Equipment in Florida
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