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  #1  
Old 02-21-2020, 03:37 PM
SouthPark SouthPark is offline
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Totally agree - Fred is a legend. He did lots of hard yards work, and provided some real gems of orchids from his work. Incredible passion and love of orchids growing and breeding.


Last edited by SouthPark; 03-29-2020 at 04:12 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2020, 04:54 PM
mook1178 mook1178 is offline
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Interesting thought on the pot method suggested by Fred and this discussion.

Fred does not grow his orchids this way. I copied the email word for word, a little copy pasta as the kids like to say. Anyway, he suggests it in that he has seen it work for some people. I don't think this is his main advice on growing technique, just one for some situations.

Now let's take into consideration the location where these people do this, Canada. Now I'm going to guess, I another haven't googled if I'm right or wrong, Canada at it's high latitudes and very low temps in the winter is going to be on the extreme side of a dry climate. Add in forced heat, I'd be willing to bet 10% humidity indoors isn't unheard of, again all speculation on my part. If that's the case though, I can see where this jar method would be very helpful in keeping pbulbs plump in the winter in Canada. Take this method to Florida to over winter the plants, I'd put money on rot that could kill a plant So again, I think this technique, as with a majority of growing technique among all orchids, is environmental and grower specific.
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2020, 11:41 PM
SouthPark SouthPark is offline
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isurus79 .... my first lesson that I learned about catasetum growing in spaghnum is related to this.

My first catasetum arrived a couple of years ago. Perfect shape and health. Growing in full swing. I assumed that I could just spray an arbitrary amount of water into the spaghnum ... to keep the spaghnum moist ... but not saturated. Not visibly saturated anyway. Within a day or two - yellowing of leaves.

Immediately unpotted and carefully pryed the media apart a bit. Quite wet/watery within the pot. I pryed some more to allow for a dry out. Then I chose a slightly larger plastic pot with lots of big drainage holes on the bottom -- then re-compressed the spaghnum core... added scoria layer to base of pot. Then packed scoria around the side of the spaghnum core.

Within a day or two - this yellowing leaf catasetum returned to normal health. The leaves became green again.

100% spaghnum ... is actually no problem - depending on setup. I still highly recommend good drainage pots. Also need to determine a suitable quantity of water to put into the spaghnum when watering time comes. Exactly how much will likely be down to some experience and/or testing.

So I've been down this path before ... and understand how to avoid the issue. I caught the issue early as I watch my orchids like a hawk.

I guarantee that the roots would have started to ROT if I had left the orchid in that problematic state.

I maintain the same view. I find that catasetums grow very well indeed when conditions relating to golden rules of orchid growing are satisfied.

Last edited by SouthPark; 02-22-2020 at 05:23 AM..
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Old 02-22-2020, 10:33 AM
mook1178 mook1178 is offline
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Isurus

When you say every sentence in that paragraph is incorrect, are you saying that catasetums aren't vulnerable to root rot?
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Old 02-22-2020, 02:45 PM
SouthPark SouthPark is offline
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isurus79 - I've also said pretty much everything already too. But let me respond to your recent post.

Main point is to know that 'inadequate' amount of 'aerated water' movement in a pot of spaghnum will cause roots (or some roots) to run out of oxygen. Roots need oxygen to stay alive.

Lots of water in a not-airy-enough medium (plus lack of adequate air-movement through the medium) can lead to relatively slow movement of aerated water.

Adequate air-movement in the surrounding environment coupled with good drainage pot, and consideration of the amount of water in the media ----- helps to avoid stagnant water issues and root oxygen starvation issues, as well as cuts down on chances of other issues - maybe unwanted bacterial/fungal activity of some sorts.

You mentioned it yourself ..... Catasetum is susceptible to root rot. There is no 'BUT' ...... because I can't disregard what I experienced and shared about yellowing leaves issue in spaghnum that was too moist, and the water wasn't moving enough in the media.

As I told you already of my experience with water stagnation under particular conditions. The point is ----- blocking air-flow pathways too much can slow down movement of aerated water in the pot --- increasing chances of issues with the roots.


Golden rules of orchid growing - in general - for mainstream orchids works extremely well. These are:

- Provide recommended growing temperatures.
- Provide recommended lighting levels and duration.
- Provide adequate water.
- Provide conditions that allow roots to receive adequate oxygen, keeping in mind that adequate aerated-water movement within the media will provide that oxygen, and the roots need oxygen to stay alive, and dying/dead roots stops water transfer into the plant - leading to yellowing leaves and dehydrating plant.
- Avoid water stagnation in the media and around roots (which if using pots, can be achieved with very good drainage pots and consideration of the media used and consideration of how much water is applied at times of watering, and behaviour of the media in response to being watered - eg. how long it takes to dry; and also ensure that drainage holes of pots are not blocked by surfaces that the pot rests on).
- Provide adequate air-movement (air flow) in the growing area (which also helps water movement within pot, and also helps to combat fungal/bacterial activity in the growing area). Avoid still-air growing environments.
- Provide adequate supplements (eg. fertiliser solution, cal/mag solution etc) - and avoid over-dosing - and keeping in mind that fertiliser salts can accumulate and reach undesirable root-harming levels in media and roots if over-doing the fertilisation.
- Provide adequate humidity (- not always incredibly important for mainstream orchids, but should be factored in if needed).

Those golden rules are just a start, but will allow us to go far.

Of course there are other aspects - such as looking out for diseases, attacking bugs/snails etc.

And then there is the occasional media dry-out idea for mainstream orchids. The idea of allowing media to occasionally dry out --- occasionally --- can help cut down on unwanted activity in or near the pot - such as certain unwanted bacteria build up, or algae growth on surface roots. The occasional dry-out approach is quite reasonable ----- not meaning dry-out between every watering --- just occasional once-in-a-while dry out.

As mentioned before. Applying those particular rules (humidity not always a high priority) certainly applies very well to catasetum.

Sure - the PET method (which I will assume comes from using of polyethylene terephthalate plastic bottles as an orchid pot) you use can be workable, and it allowed your catasetum to grow well. Keep using that method if it works well. But if you ever do encounter any issues with it in future, then please report it.


I note that your pot is a transparent one. I don't know if catasetum roots can photo-synthesise - perhaps able to generate O2 sometimes. So there may be considerations about that. On the other hand, algae growth is also something to consider - it may or may not eventually lead to some sort of issue with roots. That's just a maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isurus79 View Post
This is how they grow in nature and why you can grow them this way under home conditions.
But not always, right isurus79? Such as at 1 minute 28 seconds into this clip below (- that plant up there on the pole looks pretty good to me.) :



Quote:
Originally Posted by isurus79 View Post
If someone points to the sky and says its red, I will push back and correctly state its blue. The internet is full of misinformation and opinions masquerading as fact. I will do my best to counter such nonsense until my dying breath.
isurus79 - correcting mis-information is highly encouraged - for the benefit of orchids and orchid growers.

Based on what you wrote above - please answer my question about why you believe newly emerging roots will stall or become stunted for catasetums coming out of true dormancy when watered (when - as already mentioned - growers such as myself and other members have seen and shown no such adverse effects on the roots and catasetum plant). I don't mind whether somebody was right or wrong. We're all learning all the time. We just need to make sense of it all, and clear it up.

My opinion about this is - if the catasetum's roots get the oxygen they need, and no stagnation occurs around the roots or in the media, and the temperature and light levels etc are fine, then a catasetum coming out of dormancy will be just fine even if the newly emerging roots are exposed to water. I had already mentioned that roots are roots. They're supposed to be able to handle water.

Referring to this link Click Here ...... you will need to carefully re-think the situation related to the watering of newly emerging roots of catasetums coming out of dormancy.


Last edited by SouthPark; 03-19-2020 at 06:00 PM..
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