Phals in vivarium with automated misting

[borneotransplant]

I see pictures of small orchids like Pleurothallis, Bulbophyllums, Scaposephalums, Paphiopedillums, Dendrobium etc and these are all soaking wet and are living their best life in enclosures.

Can this work for Phals, or Vandas? I feel like they would just rot. Or are vivariums and enclosures suitable for the small orchids that needs constant moisture only?

If you want to keep Phals inside a viv together with the other orchids mentioned above, what would you need to do?

I imagine the wild Phals would accidentally get their crown wet. How are they still alive?

[SADE2020]

I have a terrarium with a bunch of Phals, but mini species that require more moisture than normals hybrids. Also, the way the Phals are set; with roots in the open air without medium allows them to dry fast and adapt to the humidity level. I'll say that almost all orchids adapt at the end..made them flowering is more challenging due to the light source and temperature. Just need Phals closer to the lights.

I don't have Vandas in a tank.

Go for it. Is fun.

[Shadeflower]

It should work for phals but vanda's probably not.
Phals in the wild grow sideways hanging so water runs out of the crown. You'd have to replicate this by attaching the phal to a clay mount so it hangs with the crown facing downwards. It needs to be a fast drying mount.

One important thing to note though is that the reason orchids in a terrarium always look freshly watered is because most likely they have. If someone takes a picture, they will water their orchids at the same time. It just makes sense to do it at that time so they will always look wet on the picture but they will dry out in between.

[borneotransplant]

Why can't it work with Vandas?

If you attach Vandas bare root on a branch, won't that work?

[Shadeflower]

Vanda's are the trickiest to keep happy in my experience but I am sure it can be done.

Vanda's like a big soak and then lots of air to dry off the roots so that is why I think it might be tricky for Vanda's but I don't know enough about them, all I know is their roots are easier to lose than on a dendrobium for example if you don't get it right. Just dunking and drying off is fairly simple and that works so if it works like that , sometimes its best to leave the plant with what it likes but again that just my opinion more than anything when it comes to vanda's. There are posts mentioning vanda'ss suffering from too much rain. It can happen easily with vanda's probably more so than a lot of other orchids that you mentioned so for vanda's getting sprayed too much will add no benefit and in my opinion could be detrimental.

[Draikan]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

One important thing to note though is that the reason orchids in a terrarium always look freshly watered is because most likely they have. If someone takes a picture, they will water their orchids at the same time. It just makes sense to do it at that time so they will always look wet on the picture but they will dry out in between.

I do this. The plants looks best and most exotic when they are wet. So I take pictures after watering when I am already working on plant stuff.

I grow a lot of mini pleurothallids of all kinds, and I don't have any that want to BE wet for more than a few hours. They like to GET wet, and then get lots of fresh humid air to dry them off. Fresh dry air is bad, fresh humid air is good. And when I say fresh I basically just mean it has to be moving and <100% humidity.

[Thriodien]

Originally Posted by Draikan

Fresh dry air is bad, fresh humid air is good. And when I say fresh I basically just mean it has to be moving and <100% humidity.

Yes, that's the thing, but how do you do THAT?

I used to have a terrarium full of phal species mounted on cork but i just couldn't keep the bare roots happy this way. When i sprayed them i was afraid that the leaves might get some kind of rot so i ran the ventillators right after that until the leaves were somewhat dry. But that caused the roots to dry out too much even though there was sphagnum moss around them (it obviously dried as well). So i shifted to leaving the doors open for a while after watering but then i was left with only 50% humidity in the terrarium... Seemed like there's no proper way to do it and yes, you're right, that's the key, fresh, humid and moving air! But how???
Now I'm planning to give this terrarium experiment another go so i already have a misting machine but now i'm thinking maybe i should've rather invested in a humidifyer?...

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[Draikan]

In my experience, the plants are more tolerant of water on them if the air is not still. I'm not certain, but I think it may have more to do with oxygenation than wetness. It seems to me that in still air, if the roots or leaves stay wet, the water reduces the amount of oxygen that can get to the tissues and bacteria that keep the plant healthy. If air circulation is improved it helps oxygen diffuse through the water and get to the plant while it's still drying off.

As for how to actually do THAT in a typical terrarium? It is hard to suggest something that will work for everyone. We all have different climate, tank size, heating, lighting, ventilation, species, mounting, watering, etc...

Here is what I would recommend as a reasonable starting point for most people:

1) Use a small fan for internal circulation, and run it 100% of the time day and night. Something like this, with a power supply like this. Either point the fan up or forward at the glass of the tank. If it blows directly on the plants it may dry them out too much. This will eliminate all stagnant spots in the tank, helping the plants to dry off AND helping them tolerate being wet.

2) Do not use a fan to blow outside air into the tank, or to blow tank air to the outside. This will be way too drying in most climates. Mostly seal the tank, but leave a small opening for passive air exchange. This small opening combined with the internal circulation fan will slowly mix in external air and dry off the plants. Slowly adjust the size of your opening until the plants are drying off about 12-24 hours after watering them.

3) build a drain or false bottom into the tank and water your plants to saturation. Literally soak them. This cleans out the mounts and makes sure they are getting fully rehydrated. You don't want to risk a plant only getting slightly wet, and then spending a few days in your well circulated air. The drain will let you collect and remove the water easily. If you let it collect in the bottom of the tank, all your nice circulation will be trying to evaporate that water instead of the water on your plants.

This is how I first found success with orchids in terrariums, and what my current methods evolved from. You will need to tinker with it, and you may need to adjust it seasonally as the conditions in your home change. If you get this working and you want to keep experimenting or improving, you can try adding a humidifier, timers, humidistat/thermostat, etc. You can also try adding more internal circulation, in my experience the plants like more internal airflow IF you can keep the humidity up. The amount of air movement we are providing is pathetic compared to an actual outdoor breeze.

TLDR:
1) active circulation
2) adjustable passive ventilation
3) water to saturation
4) have a drain

[Mr.Fakename]

Regarding Phal, let's keep in mind that they (almost) all live in monsoon forests, with humidity above 80% all year round. They get wet, and they stay wet.

Last year when I was trying plant probiotics for the first time, I made a test with some Phal venosa seedlings.
They were in closed jars with 100% humidity and no air movement, just opening the caps for a few minutes daily.
They never ever dried, and were very happy about that.

Beneficial fungi and bacteria were very important to avoid root rot though; plants that were treated pulled through the experiment better than untreated ones.

[borneotransplant]

Which probiotics did you use?