Cattleya Dowiana - Winter Rest

[mopwr]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

when you are the only person not receiving a like on your reply it might tell you that your opinion is not welcome..

I apologize if that was the impression you got, my forum / posting etiquette is probably not the best and it wasn't my intent. I replied to your post instead of liking it, but I defintely saw the value of what you were getting at. Semi-hydro definitely changes a lot and I'm sure I'll find out soon enough what works and does not first-hand. If I were a grower with 100 of these seedlings, experimentation might be a bit less scary, but being as I only have one of these and the culture warnings out there were so dire, I was curious if any more experienced in this arena could share - and so far, there's a lot of valid points from all perspectives. The videos are super helpful as well, so thank you.

[Shadeflower]

thanks mop :tup:

I hope you do ok with it too. I have an RLC husky boy which is one of my smallest seedlings. It only has one growth and it started developing spots on the leaves.
I really did not want to lose it so I switched things around and it has rewarded me with a new leaf already. Still on the verge with only 3 roots but I can guarantee you if I had backed off the ferts the brown spots would have worsened.

I should elaborate more if I am arguing for it so in winter I reduce the feed down to half, no question about that. If they are not growing any roots or leaves and completely dormant then it doesn't matte either way. I am saying it doesn't matter either way because if they are dormant they will not be drinking and thus won't be taking in any fertilizer anyway.

I've seen zero side effects but I do feed very sparingly so that matters too like I mentioned in bark you might like to fertilzie a bit more than me, maybe weekly higher dose feeds. Bark unlike lecca stores nutrients so in winter the people that feed plain water for a couple of months are in fact clearing the pots of nutrients which will get leeched out in tiny amounts.
This is certainly beneficial.

Like I mentioned before both ways will be fine but if an orchid is not in good health, then skip a winter for it. Keep it warmer and keep feeding it (even if just half strength).
I'm done exposing weak orchids to winters they cannot handle. Before I knew better I'd pop the orchid into its spot next to others that could handle it but only strong healthy orchids can and should handle a winter.

In nature nobody can bring them into the warm but in nature orchids regularly die. That is not our aim growing them at home.

To clarify further the strength I use in winter is 120ppm tds so vey weak. Rain water is 30-60 so I only add another 90 ontop.

Like I also said if they don't drink much in winter (like 10 times less) then they will be getting 10 times less nutrients.

That is one concept I know is hard to grasp but I want to elaborate even further that my seedlings get fed very similarly to my bigger plants. IT seems cymbidiums do have a slightly higher need for nutrients but for example my dendrobium nobiles grow amazingly getting fed the same concentration as my seedlings.

I've had lots of people tell me this is hogwash but this is what I have been doing for the last 3 years with no problems.

The way it works is very simple, a seedling will drink about 100 ml of water in a year.

My nobiles drink 15 liters in a year or another way to look at it would be they consume 150 times more than my seedlings.

Since I fertilzie with every watering my nobiles automatically consume 150 times more nutrients than my seedlings.

So is that enough? From my experience it seems to be.

mature orchids can handle more if one wanted and seedlings are sensitive but the bigger orchids don't need as much as one would think.

I do realize it's irrelevant arguing about it though, it's just what I believe in and do and in bark I used to make the plant use up any excess fertilizer that built up in the year so that does make sense. But I have also seen orchids struggle because of suspected deficiencies so it all should be considered. Lecca doesn't store nutrients so I believe they need to be fed continuously unlike bark where one can fertilize weekly and the bark stores and releases it back over time.

Hope I'm not putting anyone off the subject yet but I do feel people that recommend something have tried both ways and know why they are recommending against something, not that they just read that's the way it is done and so that is the way to do it.

Like I said hydroponic growing is a new way and what has been recommended in the past for bark will not necessarily work in the same way for lecca for example.

There is also an interesting study that shows bark acts more like soil than spaghnum moss does. Ie spaghnum is more hydroponic and the exact nutrietion is more important wheras bark can absorb and release nutrients and correct imbalances more eassily it seems.

So my honest opinion is that bark is amongst the best media to use, especially for sensitive seedlings and it does influence how well the orchid will grow, it will correct mistakes more than hydroponics can.

[My Green Pets]

Well no arguing that what Miracle is doing is working wonderfully for her. The proof is in the pudding!

It appears Miracle has achieved a nice balance of water and air with her wicking system. I wonder if she waters with tap, or if it matters? She mentioned in her video she only fills the reservoirs once a month, or every 6 weeks!

I also am curious to know if the traditional S/H technique with a reservoir is much different than this wicking technique.

She also mentions fertilizing heavily in every season except winter. I wonder if she stops fertilizing completely during that time, and if the reservoir stays wet.

I guess I could message her and ask instead of all this wondering.

Thanks for sharing this video, very interesting!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by My Green Pets

It appears Miracle has achieved a nice balance of water and air with her wicking system. I wonder if she waters with tap, or if it matters? She mentioned in her video she only fills the reservoirs once a month, or every 6 weeks!

I also am curious to know if the traditional S/H technique with a reservoir is much different than this wicking technique.

With a wick setup, the reservoir is essentially isolated from the “growing zone”. All of the flow is upward, so there is no contamination of the reservoir by plant wastes or mineral buildup. In an “original” S/H setup, the reservoir is part of the growing zone, making the need to flush a reality.

I think the decision to go one way or the other is a matter of circumstance and convenience. Certainly, with a lot of plants and in a setup where the pots can freely drain, the original setup is preferred, as having to do some sort of pot disassembly to refill the reservoir is a very time-consuming hassle. A few plants in windowsills might make the wicking setup far more acceptable and downright preferred.

She also mentions fertilizing heavily in every season except winter. I wonder if she stops fertilizing completely during that time, and if the reservoir stays wet.

Fertilizer-free and still moist is a very common strategy for wintering plants that need such a dormancy period.

[Shadeflower]

Originally Posted by My Green Pets

Well no arguing that what Miracle is doing is working wonderfully for her. The proof is in the pudding!

Mygreenpets, I know you actually have some dowiana seedlings, been admiring them already so I will not comment on that, I will just comment on how easily we can be fooled sometimes.

If you had paid close attention to the video you would conclude like me that there is no way she grew that dowiana. How do I know this or guess this?
It's very simple, she says she feeds them far too strong!

Not ony that she uses the same continous feed system I do and doesn't flush.

Feeding the strength you would feed a tomato will not result her getting reblooms which is probably why we have never seen any again.

Personally I would not trust a word these youtubers say.

If you take ninja orchids on the other hand her video's are very helpful, she is super honest. And as it turns out she has been using the identical feed I have been using for the past year so it has been great being able to compare my plant symptoms to hers and she has all the same problems I encountered and am now fixing, IT's quite visible on all her collection after one year. I will make a post about that soon.

Anyway don't get fooled by misleading youtube video's!

[Clawhammer]

I grow two Dowiana indoor in very similar temp conditions. I did not give either of my seedlings much of a rest last winter, just the general reduction of water and ferts I give to all my orchids in the winter, and they did fine. I know there is a evaporative cooling effect going on at root level in semi-hydro so YMMV

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by estación seca

It would be nice to hear from members who have grown dowiana in S/H, especially unbloomed seedlings.

I can't address the S/H aspect, but I doubt it is different from non-S/H. My C. dowiana 4N seedlings (qty 64) have been growing continuously in bark without a rest for the last 2 years.

Edit: First year was indoors under lights with indoor conditions people find comfortable. This winter they are in my greenhouse with 75F days, 60F nights. Fertilizer year one was 1/4 tsp/gal Miracid 15-10-10 1 x month. This year it is 1/8 tsp/gal MSU at every watering.

-Keith
---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

I'm done exposing weak orchids to winters they cannot handle. Before I knew better I'd pop the orchid into its spot next to others that could handle it but only strong healthy orchids can and should handle a winter.

Hey Shadeflower. Could you explain what you mean by "winter" here.
Thanks in advance,

-Keith

[Shadeflower]

cold temps keith...

I grow my orchids either cold, warm or hot.

I just moved a neofinetia from the cold to a warm spot instead.

I am struggling a bit with my neo's

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

cold temps keith...

I grow my orchids either cold, warm or hot.

I just moved a neofinetia from the cold to a warm spot instead.

I am struggling a bit with my neo's

I see. What are the temperatures for your cold and warm?

Neofinetia falcata will grow and flower just fine in a very wide range of temperatures. But they're slow growing to start with and growing them cool will result in extremely slow growth.

-Keith

[Shadeflower]

temps have only been going down to like 14 lowest, I think it might have already died. Newest leaf is either black or brown. It's a bit of a mystery but then I think neo's are. Just need to figure out what they need differently, temps are the trigger but can't be the reason.