Quick Semi- Hydroponic Course
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

Quick Semi- Hydroponic Course
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
  #31  
Old 08-05-2021, 06:30 PM
Dusty Ol' Man Dusty Ol' Man is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2020
Zone: 10a
Location: Lake Charles, Louisiana
Age: 67
Posts: 744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterWitchin View Post
It is what it is Dusty. If you're happy experimenting with three SH pots a week, go for it! I run, at the moment around 90 in SH. Yes, 10 above my current goal. If I had to take 150 plants to the sink each week as here_but not appears to do, regardless of medium involved, I would be burnt out years ago. And if you're flushing pots a couple of times a week, that's great but not really necessary. I'm not sure how we got onto this concern about what someone else does, but I'm regretting being involved in it. The price one pays for being a vlogger, I guess..
I only water that frequently because I can do it with a watering can. These get rain water and the appropriate additives often enough to keep them healthy. It must be working, because there are new roots growing. If I had the opportunity to continue the conversation with here_but not, I would say that taking 150 plants to the sink is out of the question with me. I would have them set up so I could water with a hose, like Roberta. My tap water doesn't seem to hurt the phals and dens.
As far as concerns about how others water goes, I'm only interested because I may be able to adapt what works well for someone else to my own situation and climate. That's why I'm here. As well as to share my little successes and failures so maybe someone else can benefit from them. I love this place!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-06-2021, 08:35 AM
Ray's Avatar
Ray Ray is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: May 2005
Member of:AOS
Location: Oak Island NC
Posts: 13,292
Quick Semi- Hydroponic Course Male
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by here_butnot View Post
@Ray, "The guy who makes those videos likes notoriety, and doesn't seem to be too careful about what he says to get it." - I've made 20 videos over 4 years. Fame is not my goal (orchid fame...)—but how is your business doing selling products for semihydro? I see you recommend KelpMax a lot to semihydro growers on this forum...that's a product only you produce, right?
. Justin, Since retiring and downsizing my business, I don’t sell any containers or media (OK, I do have excess rock wool cubes), nor do I sell anything specifically for semi-hydroponics. As I explained earlier in this thread, it’s the phals that I no longer grow in S/H culture, but the majority of my plants still are, and have been for decades.

I recommend and sell KelpMax to growers of all plants, grown however they may be, and do so because it is a remarkable product. No, I am not the producer.

Quote:
Also @Ray, you and I had a chat a while back about your lack of transparency regarding your experience with phals and semihydro...to the point that you changed verbiage on your site. If you couldn't grow phals where you are in the (very warm) US, how might someone like me (from a cooler climate) not have the same issues or worse ones? This is why transparency is important, it helps people understand the complete picture!
The issue I had and have with your statement about me no longer growing phals that way was that it was out of context and misleading. You may recall that we got into a discussion about that on the Canadian orchid growers Facebook page and you apologized.

I also disagree with your statement about my transparency on that. My website is loaded with solid informational articles. When I write such an article, I do my best to clearly explain the details and my experience. With time, that experience may change, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the initial document is wrong, nor does it mean I tried to obfuscate something. You have acknowledged to me that the “even the inventor doesn’t use it” statement isn’t entirely accurate, so have you replaced that video with one providing a clearer explanation, or are you failing your own transparency judgement?

If someone points out an issue with one of my articles, I might update it or edit it for clarity, but that is entirely different from your implication that editing was done because “I was caught hiding something”. Sometimes, I just don’t get around to it for one reason or another - maybe I though going fishing or just for a walk on the beach was of more importance…not because I’m hiding something.

Quote:
You say the problem comes down to growing orchids out of their ideal temp range; yet here I am growing those same types of orchids (even from seed) years later and have no issues with my climate—but it's because I'm now using organic media that holds MORE water than LECA and releases it over a longer period of time ensuring the WHOLE root zone is evenly moist between watering cycles.
This last paragraph clearly demonstrates that you are too narrow-minded in your approach to orchid growing or understanding individuals’ varying cultural conditions.

I have never stated that “the problem” is related to temperature. I have stated that temperature might be a factor if you have problems, but that is only one of a multitude of interrelated cultural parameters.

You apparently see the use of organic media strictly as a matter of water retention, but fail to consider that it appears to stay wetter longer, not because it holds more water, but because it is less airy and the water doesn’t evaporate as quickly.

A grower really needs to consider multiple factors in all of their growing decisions and not assume that changing one thing only affects that.
__________________
Ray Barkalow, Orchid Iconoclast
FIRSTRAYS.COM

Last edited by Ray; 08-06-2021 at 03:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes isurus79 liked this post
  #33  
Old 08-06-2021, 09:06 AM
WaterWitchin's Avatar
WaterWitchin WaterWitchin is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Zone: 6a
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man View Post
I only water that frequently because I can do it with a watering can. These get rain water and the appropriate additives often enough to keep them healthy. It must be working, because there are new roots growing. If I had the opportunity to continue the conversation with here_but not, I would say that taking 150 plants to the sink is out of the question with me. I would have them set up so I could water with a hose, like Roberta. My tap water doesn't seem to hurt the phals and dens.
As far as concerns about how others water goes, I'm only interested because I may be able to adapt what works well for someone else to my own situation and climate. That's why I'm here. As well as to share my little successes and failures so maybe someone else can benefit from them. I love this place!
The "it is what it is" was directed toward your first two sentences Dusty. You were correct, but you can't have a conversation with someone who isn't willing to both give and receive opinions. That's what our original poster was asking for... opinions. So she could pick and choose from that and use what she believes will work for her.

Of course you can water more frequently if you desire. That's a benefit touted for SH, as some say they can't be overwatered. I don't personally know, because my watering falls at the other end of the spectrum. The info on Ray's website are guidelines and suggestions of what works for him, not rules. Same with OB. Then one picks and chooses what they are willing to do, or modify to suit the particular individual and their environment.

HB_N says "That's the whole key to success, to flush water and not just top the water up?" is not an accurate statement. I top up mine in SH all the time when I'm in a hurry. I flush around once a week to every ten days, and have no issues. Whether I've had 150 or 25 orchids, I've never trotted to the sink regardless of the medium in the pot. It takes me around 20 minutes to water orchids, flushing them and twiddling around with a few each time. Watering my houseplants, and my outside plants takes many, many times longer. And sometimes more often. {{sigh}}

Speaking of tap water... I have fairly high TDS here, ranging from 380-650 +/- depending on time of year, averaging around the 450 range most of the time. I watered for years and years with tap water. When I started really getting into some of the phrags, paphs, and a few other types that really do require a more pure water is when I switched to RO. Now they all get RO, because it's easier to dump in the fertilizer and water all instead of RO for some, tap for some. I follow the KISS theory whenever possible.
__________________
Caveat: Everything suggested is based on my environment and culture. Please adjust accordingly.
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes Dusty Ol' Man liked this post
  #34  
Old 08-06-2021, 09:28 AM
Clawhammer Clawhammer is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 743
Quick Semi- Hydroponic Course
Default

Ease of watering is just another growing condition.

About 5% of my collection are s/h (25 plants). They sit in plumbed trays and I water with a hose w/ fert injected low TDS tap water. As a result it takes about 1.5 minutes to flush all 25. Every plant grows better with a daily flush. Organic media wouldn't last long in this regimen.

Anyway, my point is increasing flushing frequency improves outcomes by leaning into one of the main advantages of s/h. It is worth discussing.

---------- Post added at 05:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:20 AM ----------

The main reason I don't use s/h more often is the conversion period. All plants will have a setback to some degree when repotting, generally related to the degree of change in the makeup of the new medium. If you repot into the same medium without disturbing roots, there is likely very little disruption. However, that is not possible going from organic to LECA. Removing all old media is required and even then old roots will surely rot in the new wet / airy environment. Planting when new roots are emerging from a new growth helps mitigate the conversion pain but in my experience s/h conversion is always harsher than maintaining a similar organic mix. I just don't like seeing my plants struggle through the adjustment.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-06-2021, 11:11 AM
WaterWitchin's Avatar
WaterWitchin WaterWitchin is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Zone: 6a
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,206
Default

It IS worth discussing. I would wholeheartedly agree that flushing and watering more often is likely overall better for the plant. I can't attest to that, because I don't do it. It's not the reason I switched to SH. I also have plumbed trays, and watering around 80 right now with a hose, pump in the water reservoir. Interesting that you can do so many so quickly. What size pots are we talking about? Pretty sure I should actually time myself and count plants next time I water, then report back. I'm making educated guesses, but could be way off. Either that, or we're talking different pot size.

Speaking of disruption... since 98% of mine are in SH (rest mounted) now, it isn't a problem. I remember when I started repotting everything over, there were a few that really struggled for awhile, but for the most part not a huge deal. Now that only happens when I receive a new plant. The last few I've transferred haven't batted an eye. They did end up losing most of the old roots, but new roots were coming along at the same time. When I transplant one that's not in season to be pushing new growth, I'd agree it takes longer. But they never look bad for a long time (maybe six months). Maybe it depends on the genus of the particular plants?
__________________
Caveat: Everything suggested is based on my environment and culture. Please adjust accordingly.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-06-2021, 11:22 AM
Clawhammer Clawhammer is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 743
Quick Semi- Hydroponic Course
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterWitchin View Post
It IS worth discussing. I would wholeheartedly agree that flushing and watering more often is likely overall better for the plant. I can't attest to that, because I don't do it. It's not the reason I switched to SH. I also have plumbed trays, and watering around 80 right now with a hose, pump in the water reservoir. Interesting that you can do so many so quickly. What size pots are we talking about? Pretty sure I should actually time myself and count plants next time I water, then report back. I'm making educated guesses, but could be way off. Either that, or we're talking different pot size.

Speaking of disruption... since 98% of mine are in SH (rest mounted) now, it isn't a problem. I remember when I started repotting everything over, there were a few that really struggled for awhile, but for the most part not a huge deal. Now that only happens when I receive a new plant. The last few I've transferred haven't batted an eye. They did end up losing most of the old roots, but new roots were coming along at the same time. When I transplant one that's not in season to be pushing new growth, I'd agree it takes longer. But they never look bad for a long time (maybe six months). Maybe it depends on the genus of the particular plants?
The max it takes me to fill a s/h pot with LECA and roots is 5 seconds when the hose is fully open, and that is a big ole mostly outside cymbidium in a 5 gallon bucket (currently with 3 spikes!). I do have really good water pressure.

I am growing few catasetum in s/h this year because the previous year's roots don't matter at all, so they are great candidates. Once a plant is establish in s/h, repotting becomes so easy. However, orchids that use old growth roots for longer than one season (like cattleya or phals) definitely suffer from the conversion and there is no preventing that. If I repot a phal or catt into the exact same media it is currently in with little root disruption they literally don't miss a beat. I hate seeing my plants languish, even for a few months.

Different strokes for different folks, applies to all aspects of life

Last edited by Clawhammer; 08-06-2021 at 11:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-06-2021, 11:27 AM
WaterWitchin's Avatar
WaterWitchin WaterWitchin is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Zone: 6a
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,206
Default

What's your average size pot Clawhammer? Just curious. About the only ones I can fill that fast are around deli-cup size. I have a ball valve on my pump, and if I turn it up any higher than it is LECA starts bouncing around the room.
__________________
Caveat: Everything suggested is based on my environment and culture. Please adjust accordingly.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-06-2021, 11:32 AM
Clawhammer Clawhammer is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 743
Quick Semi- Hydroponic Course
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterWitchin View Post
What's your average size pot Clawhammer? Just curious. About the only ones I can fill that fast are around deli-cup size. I have a ball valve on my pump, and if I turn it up any higher than it is LECA starts bouncing around the room.
The 5 gallon bucket takes about 5 seconds. The 16 oz or 22 oz "to go" cups take a couple seconds max. I use a dramm rain wand to prevent high pressure water flow dislodging my media.

---------- Post added at 07:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------

Also, after watering everyday for a couple months, under lights, I start to get a nice layer of moss on the top, which along with roots, holds LECA in place. I have found that adding rockwool to the top layer expedites the moss growth.

Watering everyday eliminates the dryline issues and allows me to use larger size LECA exclusively as well.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-06-2021, 11:36 AM
WaterWitchin's Avatar
WaterWitchin WaterWitchin is offline
Super Moderator
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Zone: 6a
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,206
Default

I've done transfer with Catt, Blc, Phal, most Dens, Brass, Epis, and not a big problem. Oh, and of course Cymbs, which are just big goofballs that don't seem to notice much of anything.

Setback when transferring over I've noticed were some Catatante, some oncidium, beallara, odontoglossum. I have a couple of beallara that didn't take to it well at all. May end up mounting.

---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------

I don't have dryline issues. Probably due to pretty high humidity. I wish moss would grow on mine, but it never seems to happen. Might try introducing it on purpose.

I'm definitely gonna time it next time I water! Ya know what they say? Timing is everything!
__________________
Caveat: Everything suggested is based on my environment and culture. Please adjust accordingly.
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes Clawhammer liked this post
  #40  
Old 08-06-2021, 03:14 PM
here_butnot here_butnot is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 16
Quick Semi- Hydroponic Course
Default

Oyi Ray, you have selective memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
You may recall that we got into a discussion about that on the Canadian orchid growers Facebook page and you apologized.
I apologized for the drama, that was it—because I'm sick of running circles with this topic. Which...here we are again because for some reason, a guy like me can't share FACTS about my experience with a growing method.

- Fact: semihydro failed after me trying many different things for literally years.
- Fact: after moving your phals indoors, you couldn't grow them in semihydro either because the drier and cooler indoor climate prevented success and so you moved them to sphagnum moss.
- Fact: your website doesn't declare any of these issues you encountered pertaining to indoor phals in s/h. (which is relevant because phals are the #1 indoor-grown orchid, often a vector for new hobbyists).
- Fact: you told me my failure with semihydro was my fault—full-well knowing that you too had challenges with phals that caused you to stop using semihydro and instead use sphagnum.
- Fact: you told me you participate in groups and forums, "to drum up sales of KelpMax, K-Lite, and Inocucor" - if you'd like receipts of the conversations, I have screenshots for each of these facts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Sometimes, I just don’t get around to it for one reason or another - maybe I though going fishing or just for a walk on the beach was of more importance…not because I’m hiding something.
Must be a long trip fishing at the beach. It's been over a year and a half since we chatted about your phal's switch from s/h to sphagnum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
You have acknowledged to me that the “even the inventor doesn’t use it” statement isn’t entirely accurate, so have you replaced that video with one providing a clearer explanation, or are you failing your own transparency judgement?
So first:
- the exact quote is, "Did You Know: the inventor of the semihydroponic orchid method, doesn’t grow his phals in semihydro? It’s true. His phals are potted in sphagnum moss"
That's fact, right?

Second—there's no video. There has never been a video because I don't talk about semihydro on my channel. I have one single article sharing my experience and perspectives.

So...why are you miss quoting my blog? Why are you referencing a video that never existed? Why haven't you been transparent about your collection?


I'm glad you brought up this last point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
You apparently see the use of organic media strictly as a matter of water retention, but fail to consider that it appears to stay wetter longer, not because it holds more water, but because it is less airy and the water doesn’t evaporate as quickly.
Actually, I tested this and it turns out water evaporation across organic and inorganic media is actually mostly consistent (as long as the media isn't old and/or your sphagnum isn't compacted). Bark dries at -roughly- the same rate as LECA which dries at the same rate as sphagnum—because the speed at which water evaporates is mostly consistent (though based on environmental conditions like ambient humidity and airflow). Yes, adding more structure to the media increases airflow and speeds up evaporation (which LECA has the most gaps for air movement), but the main difference is, bark and sphagnum hold more water than LECA so their dry-out rates are longer. Relevant because the top layer of LECA (which isn't remoistened by the reservoir), goes bone dry within less than 24h in dry conditions.

Chart showing evaporation rate over time across 4 media types


Source data
Orchid Media (Drying Rates & Best Choices) - Google Sheets


Ray... I've said this to you before, I'm frustrated by the fanaticism over semihydro—this whole thread is because I shared something that didn't work for me...and I included a LOT of detail—100% transparency.

Anyways, you switched your phals to sphagnum moss, that's a fact. Right? So... why are we STILL going in circles about this?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
entire, instructions, link, rooted, share


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More semi hydroponic questions Joshaeus Semi-Hydroponic Culture 11 02-06-2020 10:21 PM
Question Semi hydroponic progress... Roey.P. Semi-Hydroponic Culture 2 01-17-2017 12:54 PM
Semi Hydroponic Roting/fungi roguekiller23231 Semi-Hydroponic Culture 19 03-26-2014 10:47 PM
Semi hydroponic forum? Phal grower Beginner Discussion 2 08-28-2011 11:51 AM
Semi Hydroponic Information Oscarman News, Updates & Feedback 0 07-22-2006 06:06 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:28 AM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.