Yikes! Root rot, why?!
 

Hello, I'm new to the orchid caring community as I've recently bought two beautiful phalenopsis orchids.

I'm concerned with how they are potted (in peat moss), but more urgently I'm worried that I am either overwatering or have a flower that has come across a disease.

I have only had them a couple of weeks and I've been watering by soaking the medium thoroughly before letting it drain.
I've worried about this a bit as the peat moss seems to still hold a LOT of water, but I'd seen that process recommended online somewhere and went for it.

Attached are pictures of the affected roots and my new bloom that is withering.

Any suggestions are appreciated!
Thanks,
-Dave

That is sphagnum moss, not peat.

Epiphytic orchids are unique in that they do much of their respiratory gas exchange through their roots, rather than leaves, as it the case for terrestrial plants. The key to success, therefore, is to provide constant moisture without suffocating the roots.

As it is not advisable to repot a plant while it is in bloom, I suggest pulling the entire root mass and moss (as a unit) out of the flexible plastic pot, and simply placing it into the other one, having made sure there's good drainage.

Then, rather than soaking the moss, consider placing the pot in a tray, and add water to that. The moss will wick it up without becoming saturated.

Once the plant has gone out of bloom, you can consider repotting into a medium that is easier to manage.

It looks like you have it in an office. Is it the office building cold? These don’t like their roots to be cold and wet and since sphagnum holds on to moisture it can make the root ball colder than what it would be in bark. Just a thought.

Ahhh, it seems my beginner ignorance is showing. Sphagnum moss, of course!
Appreciated for the advice everyone.

I have done exactly as you mentioned, Ray. The root mass is now sitting in the slightly larger external pot where it can get a bit more air.

I'll look to repot it as you say, after blooming is finished.

SaraJean, you are correct about the office environment. While understandably not the ideal orchid growing situation, they do seem to be holding up...aside from my over-eager watering practices. :(

The office is kept at a fairly constant 75 degrees, so I don't believe the cold is an issue in this case.

Taking this advice in, I'll aim to change up my watering strategy to a wicking-up one and hope that that helps moving forward.

Any advice on what to do about the blackened, mushy roots and how far back I should cut them away?
If they are a little black, should they be removed?

Thanks muchly!
-Dave

If it was me: I wouldn’t mess with cutting the black parts, that could end up damaging other things, causing more problems, giving myself a headache, ect.. I like to keep things simple. I would just keep that one more on the dry side. Only water it when you are certain the moss has fully dried out. If you do as Ray said, keep the orchid as is and just place the root ball in a different pot, it will dry out better.

Thanks guys!

I'll update in a few weeks with how she's doing :)

-Dave

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

Phal Culture
 

For me, the most difficult thing I needed to learn to grow phals was when to water and when not to. I lost many phals due to root and crown rot. If the sphag is old, it will retain more water for a longer period of time which can easily lead to rot. After blooming, I would cut off any of the dead, black roots and pour some hydrogen peroxide on them. I would then repot with fresh New Zealand sphag which should first be soaked overnight. Since I had so many problems with rot when I first started growing phals, I squeeze most of the water out of the sphag before using. I then water my phals when the potting media is almost dry. If you find that the fresh sphag continues to hold too much water and you continue to have problems with root or crown rot, you can repot into a mixture of bark and sphag. This was what ultimately worked the best for me for the conditions I am able to grow my orchids in. Good luck!

Thanks Sharon!

That's some excellent advice. I will definitely give that a try as soon as I've lost all of my blooms.

Unfortunately, the plant seems a bit distressed by all of this happening and is currently dropping its blooms regularly one at a time.

Any way to stop this? I haven't watered in the last couple of weeks but I wouldn't call the sphag completely dry yet.
Perhaps I just need to let it do its thing, drop it's blooms and then re-pot.

There is no way to stop the flowers/buds from dropping now that they have begun to do so.

Yes, you want this to run its course so that the plant can conserve energy. You may also help the plant out by speeding up the process by removing the flower spike.

(Note: Removing flower spikes for plants to conserve energy works for epiphytic orchids the best. For geophytic orchids with tuberoids, it doesn't work so well. The reason why is that the geophytic orchids had already expended a lot of its energy resources into initiating a flowering inflorescence, and this is right about the same time the old tuberoid is already producing a new tuberoid while the old tuberoid transfers whatever energy reserves it has left to the new tuberoid as the old tuberoid starts to die starting with the leaf/leaves.

Sympodial epiphytic orchids have a similar energy transfer mechanism except that it takes the old pseudobulb longer to die giving the plant additional energy resources if anything were to go wrong. Also, while some geophytic orchids have tuberoids, (whether stem or root tuberoid), that have photosynthetic capabilities, they are somewhat limited due to their subterranean growth habit. On the other hand, the epiphytic orchid's pseudobulbs are fully exposed to the air and light in the environment they grow in which gives them greater photosynthetic capabilities than a subterranean tuberoid.

Monopodial epiphytic orchids like Phalaenopsis retain their old leaves for quite a long time, and therefore if anything goes wrong, they can shed their flowers to avoid expending anymore energy but can still continue producing more energy to store up with their intact leaves.)

Thanks for the advice Philip!

I wouldn't have considered cutting the stem down but it makes sense after reading what you wrote.

I think I will leave the orchid for the weekend so that I can buy some new sphagnum moss/tree bark and a new pot (clear hopefully), and then cut and transfer it all at once.

Two questions;
1) I've heard that you should cut a stem above the 2nd node. Is this true? Is it for plant health or to attempt to get the stem to branch again?

2) Do I need to treat a freshly cut stem with anything? Hydrogen peroxide?
(If so, what kind of mix of the peroxide would be pertinent? I expect that I don't want to put the stuff from the drug store straight from the bottle on it.)

Thanks as always!
-Dave

You're welcome.

I wouldn't think in terms of if anybody "should cut above the 2nd node". It is more accurate to say that this recommendation is optional.

It is an attempt to get the flowering inflorescence to branch and produce more flowers, not for the plant's well-being.

If it was for the plant's well-being if the plant was ill, it'd be better to either remove it entirely, or leave it alone if the plant is producing a keiki on the inflorescence.

I wouldn't use hydrogen peroxide to cauterize a cut wound on the plant. The science behind hydrogen peroxide is that it acts as an oxygen free-radical. It actually damages cell membrane integrity and it does so in a chain reaction unless something stops it. Hydrogen peroxide also fizzles out quickly when it is exposed to the air and becomes water in about a minute or less.

Medical science does not really advocate the use of hydrogen peroxide on a wound anymore because it doesn't seem to help the wound heal faster, which is what we want in this situation. (I currently work in the medical field, we don't even use hydrogen peroxide much at all. We use saline water to clean wounds now.)

The other disadvantage of using hydrogen peroxide to cauterize a wound on the plant is that it is difficult to target the affected area without getting it all over the place. The reason I mention this as an undesirable thing is that ideally, you don't want any chemicals that can cause serious damage to the plant's roots to touch the roots. Hydrogen peroxide can do damage to the plant's root system if it were to touch the roots.

The better alternatives to cauterizing a cut wound would probably either be cinnamon, salt (NaCl), or heat. Just make sure not to get salt or cinnamon on the roots.

Please make sure to sterilize or disinfect your cutting tools before and after use.

What a wealth of knowledge! Thank you, thank you, Philip!

Would you recommend anything specific to sterilize my cutting tool? (Handy to me in the office I have scissors, but I expect I will bring in a proper pruning tool to handle this job.)


Cheers,
-Dave

Are these your first orchids?
 

:hello

It sounds as if you have all the makings of one of us, an orchid obessive. So, while we all want to keep every orchid alive and thriving, everyone here who has played with keeping these delightful plants has probably killed one or two, or at least watched them die. (And maybe one out of every two). If this one cost under $20 and came from a big box store, consider chalking this up to experience, and do the best you can and accept what happens.

For my part, potting in moss is best left to the pros. I know some will disagree, but there's a reason most use more porous media that dries and drains more readily. I think moss serves the mass market phal industry quite well - they don't have to water much, and they pretty much guarantee that most of their plants will be dead from overwatering within the month, so back to Home Depot or Trader Joe's for another! $$$

Enjoy your orchids. Many seasoned orchid obsessives started out just like this, with one store-bought or gifted Phal. You've been warned :D;)

Hi there D_novice!

These are not my first orchids but definitely the first one's that I have cared to really care for. Others have been co-owned or accepted when they were stubborn enough not to flower.

Perhaps I'll take your advice and move from the sphagnum moss to wood chips/bark. Those are mediums I'm more familiar with anyways, so that makes sense.

Here's hoping I can revive one such "mass market" Phal!

If not...maybe I'll try for a keiki off of the other Phal I have that is doing ridiculously well.
I should really post a picture of that one too. :D

I see you are in Canada. Moss can be a bit tricky to use in cooler temps with warm growers. Damp sphagnum can make the roots a bit cooler than the air temp. Bark dries faster and cooling was not as big of an issue that I found. I’ve seen some people one here use seedling heat mats to help out with keeping the roots warm

I haven't had any issues yet with re-potting Phals in bloom as long as I don't accidentally cut off a viable root. I wouldn't cut off any of the roots unless they are mushy all the way to the tip, even roots with mushy or blackened sections interspersed with firm sections are still working. Such roots eventually die on me, but cutting one off prematurely can really set the plant back (drooping leaves, dropped flowers, etc.).

In the flimsy plastic pots full of moss, I'll use a sharp pencil to punch holes all over the cup. This really improves root survival and condition for me if I want to wait to repot. I'm wondering if I just grow my Phals at temperatures that are too cool for their roots to do well in sphagnum.

Aliceinwl, how cool the air is is not the only factor, how much air the plant's roots come in contact to is also. If you saw a bunch of photos of Phals growing in the wild, you will notice that their roots are usually not covered in moss. Usually, there is either no moss or very little moss on the trees they grow on. This means their roots are exposed to a lot of air in the wild. The reason why they do not dry out is because of how humid the areas they grow in are. How humid? Think the swamp forests of Florida if you've ever been there. The humidity is around 80% - 90% year round.

When commercial nurseries are using moss to grow Phals, it is a cheap, temporary, and efficient way to keep the Phals hydrated. The Phals are often watered only once a week or less. If there are any Phals that are overwatered and/or dies before they are sold, the nursery moves on without a blink. The reason why is because they are commercially cloned or produced by the millions. They don't care like you do about your Phal because they have no shortage of Phals to replace any that don't make it. As a grower, you have very limited resources to Phals, and therefore, it is one reason that accounts for the differences in cultivational practices.

---------- Post added at 07:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 AM ----------

A lighter? A gas stove?

Otherwise rubbing alcohol might give you mixed results.

I don't know how likely anyone in the public can get a hold of these, but antimicrobial sanitation wipes might be ok as well.

You could also boil the cutting tool in water or steam it with a pressure cooker. I know that people who do home flasking of orchid seeds use pressure cookers instead of autoclaves.

Physan 20 is easy to get a hold of. Physan 20 can be useful to clean tabletops and tools. Do not use on the plants.

Update on root rot - Good news!
 

Hello all,

I thought I'd chime back in with an update this week.

After losing 3-4 flowers, my phal seems to have recovered from its stressful state and has stopped dropping blooms. There are still four remaining and they seem content enough.
I plan to change the medium from moss to woodchips/bark after I lose the remaining flowers.

On another note, I mentioned that I would post a picture of my big beautiful white phal. So here she is!
Currently the only stem has branched twice and the primary stalk is hosting seven flowers with what looks like another 2-3 on their way.
One of the two branches has 3 buds that are coming along nicely and looks like it will continue to grow more.
The last branch doesn't seem to have much action but I have high hopes :biggrin: