Yes/No to Seaweed/Kelp in winter for struggling Cattleyas
 

I've got a handful of Cattleyas with severe to total root loss. I'm babying them through the winter, misting to prevent dehydration from further advancing.

I'd like to know what the Board's thoughts are on kelp use in the winter in such cases. What say you, Board? ;-)

Would an energy drink be good for you when you're too sick to get out of bed?

I would stick to minimal doses of anything but pure water until the plants begin to show signs of new growth first - and that could be spring.

....................rot_____________dehydration... ..........
.................................^................ ......................
............................... / \.....................................
..............................water............... ....................
...............................kelp............... .....................

(dots because no leading spaces seem to be allowed)

I think misting in the setting of cold and rootless is not a good idea, with or without kelp. Catts absorb water through their roots, so misting will not keep them from shriveling. The only way to prevent shriveling is to have roots absorbing water.

I have a couple of plants, including a Catt seedling, in a similar situation. I would recommend a heating mat, an enclosed jar, a dry plant, and something damp inside the jar to keep the humidity nearly 100%. Warmer is better for catt rooting, I think. If you have a warm humid spot, then do the kelp. If you don't have warm and humid, you're in the situation of trying to keep the plant viable until warm weather returns.

They're not in any medium & I mist the leaves during the day. Rot hasn't been a problem as the air circulation is good.

Thanks for the alternate plan, Estacion. I may just give that a whirl.

I don't know if kelp will help but it wouldn't hurt.

In my experience, I've only gotten new roots from new growths. It takes patience and faith that the existing-hopefully plump-pbulbs sustain the plant until new pbulbs develop new roots.

If you have multiple pbulbs, I would prop them up in moist sphag with rhizome clips/other methods. Keep warm. Personally, I would leave it open to air.

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------

I wanted to make sure I wasn't lying or my memory failing since I no longer keep standard Catts. So the above statement holds true for cernua.

An Epidendrum I received without active roots a few months ago has new roots from newer rhizomes, no new root on the older parts of the plant. I suppose it could be argued that the new roots are on new growth, just looks like its on the rhizome.:dunno:

Anyway, I did use kelp on the Epi. Did it help? Don't know. Oldest pbulbs are shriveled husks now.

Are these Cattleyas that only put out new growths once a year? If so, you could probably fool them into thinking it is a new growing season if you put them under lights. I have new growth on all my current Cattleyas. Den. aggregatum put out a new flush of growth that it is just finishing. Last year, my larger once-a-year blooming species (C. mossiae, purpurata, C. gaskelliana, etc.) all put out a second flush of growth after being put under the lights, bloomed at the wrong time and had new growths starting when I gave them away in autumn. It was crazy!
Good luck!

I think the kelp will maybe help and likely can't hurt. For most people growing indoors, winter doesn't have a lot of impact on their orchids because if they are at room temperature and under lights, it is pretty much like summer time. Sure if certain plants need a temp drop to induce bloom, you might put it on a cool window ledge, but these ailing Catts need warmer temps.

IME, kelp only seems to stimulate root growth from existing roots. You can try briefly soaking the base of the plant in a solution of kelp extract (nothing extreme, just the concentration recommended by the manufacturer for routine use; do for a few minutes, then drain).

Bethmarie, I am curious why you say that rot has not been a problem, yet there are no roots. Are these rescues, or new purchases?

I would try what estacion seca recommended in his post. Definitely stop mist ing. If you try a kelp soak now and then, plant should dry before you return it to estacion seca's humidity setup.

If you get the occasional long winter rain that is not too cold, try leaving your Catts out in that. Catts don't absorb much water through the leaves, but it may help.

If the particular kelp product you are using is pretty much limited to auxins, then as OW says, it will likely only cause branching of existing roots.

My experience with KelpMax, on the other hand, because it contains a large number of different stimulants (auxins, cytokinins, polyamines, abscisic acid, gibberellins, and brassinosteroids), is that it stimulates new root growth, as well as branching, plus the emergence of multiple growth fronts.

Bethmarie, my advice would be to mix up a 1 tablespoon/gallon solution using warm water (75°-85°F), and completely submerge the rootless plants for a couple of hours. Pot them up (you'll obviously need to stake them for stability), and water them in with that same solution. Keep them warm, shady, and the RH% high, and they ought to recover nicely.

Ray, do you have a technical article or analysis that describes the stimulants in Kelpmax? Or is that info on the product label or SDS (formerly MSDS)? If you have that available, I would appreciate it if you can share that. It would be good to keep as a reference.

Thanks!

I had 2 Catts from a BB store that had nearly total root loss. I cut off all dead roots, placed them in a tall container with large river rocks and secured them with a flower stake. I made a mix of 1/4 tsp 20-20-20 orchid fert, and 1/4 tsp of SuperThrive. I misted the roots (or where roots should be) everyday. I never drained the water from the container, just make sure no part of the plant is resting in any accumulated water. Eventually new roots started to emerge. Once there was a decent sized root mass I potted them in small pots that I made from the bottoms of water bottles with several holes in the bottom. I treated them like normal after they were potted up. They ended up in 5" slotted pots and the roots are now everywhere, with a nice amount of p-bulbs. One of them is still thriving and nearly bursting from the pot and one has died from recent neglect. I'm hoping it's not actually dead, but it looks more hopeless than when it was rootless. Somewhere on this forum is a post about those Catts and I believe there are picture of them, maybe even some of what I call my OICU.

Good luck!

Sorry! I missed this post.

So far, the only statements out of the manufacturer are that the product "has been shown to contain a large number of auxins, cytokinins and polyamines, abscisic acid, and concentrated gibberellins and brassinosteroids, which have been shown to elicit a wide range of physiological responses including cell division, stem and root growth, flower and fruit development, seed yield and protection from stress."

The SDS says nothing about the exact chemistry. Otherwise, I only have the following contents (ppm):

Growth Stimulants
Auxins: 11
Cytokinins: 0.031

Nutrients
Proteins: 3000
Carbohydrates: 16900
Nitrogen: 3600
Phosphorus: 8200
Potassium: 7200
Calcium: 800
Magnesium: 200
Cobalt: 0.3
Copper: 0.2
Fluorine: 0.4
Iodine: 8.6
Iron: 13.6
Boron: 0.24
Manganese: 8.4
Sulfur: 0.64
Molybdenum: 0.38
Nickel: 0.43
Sodium: 80
Strontium: 0.4
Zinc: 4.2

Amino Acids
Serine: 208
Phenylalanine: 8
Methionine: 72
Aspartic acid: 316
Hydroxyproline: 36
Glutamic acid: 20
Alanine: 280
Tyrosine: 332
Valine: 150
Ornithine: 20
Glycine: 140
Lysine: 272
Isoleucine: 92
Threonine: 152
Leucine: 180
Proline: 184

Vitamins
B1: 0.908
B2: 0.08
C: 20
E: 0.68

Ray, out of curiosity do you prefer K-L-N or SuperThrive. From what I understand they do about the same thing? I will be buying some soon and just wonder if I should switch to K-L-N from SuperThrive?

Thanks for sharing that Ray. That is helpful.

For comparison purposes, and to show the range of variation across kelp extract products, I thought it might be useful to post a link for the Growmore brand I use: http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/ms...nformation.pdf

Many of the same components are in both products, but with some variation in concentration. I would not be surprised if the variation is related to where the kelp is harvested, or kelp species, but don't really know.