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  #1  
Old 03-10-2017, 07:39 AM
Lamia189 Lamia189 is offline
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Is this fusarium?
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Hi guys...
So I have just received my order from shwerter this morning. I have ordered 4 orchids and two of them aren't in their best shape. Two miltonias I bought seem to have their pseudo bulbs stretched out from one another, as if they were lacking nutrients to form properly? So when I was reporting the first one, i have decided to cut off a shriveled pseudobulb from which all the other ones were extending. Upon my shock I have noticed a red ring in the cut... Can you guys please tell me if this is an orchid infected with fusarium? If yes, are my other orchids I bought infected now too? I have bought two small oncidiums as well but they were all packed in plastic, so they weren't really touching... I'm not sure how the disease spreads, I have only seen the symptoms and know the results... thanks!
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2017, 08:13 AM
Lamia189 Lamia189 is offline
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Second miltonia has the ring as well...
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2017, 08:53 AM
Fernando Fernando is offline
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Miltonia grows that way. And older bulbs are mostly shrivelled. Your plants look(ed) very good.

Please, next time, before you panic and cut the bulbs that are nutrient reservoirs, ask before doing such irremediable cuttings...

Look at pictures of spectabile or moreliana - they grow that way! And they pass this trait to the hybrids, too.

I don't like Schwerter as he often ships in plastic. Short time there is no problem, but long journey - like to my place, can often be three weeks, it ends disastrous.
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  #4  
Old 03-10-2017, 09:10 AM
Lamia189 Lamia189 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
Miltonia grows that way. And older bulbs are mostly shrivelled. Your plants look(ed) very good.

Please, next time, before you panic and cut the bulbs that are nutrient reservoirs, ask before doing such irremediable cuttings...

Look at pictures of spectabile or moreliana - they grow that way! And they pass this trait to the hybrids, too.

I don't like Schwerter as he often ships in plastic. Short time there is no problem, but long journey - like to my place, can often be three weeks, it ends disastrous.
are you saying that miltonias have red rings? The ones I got are spectabilis and spectabile var. Striata. So my orchids are healthy? 😑 oh my god. Thank you, I didn't think they would have red rings normally if for example the leaves werent tinted, but then again I did start with phals. And they are very different...
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  #5  
Old 03-10-2017, 10:29 AM
Sharon's Sheepdogs Sharon's Sheepdogs is offline
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That really is a good question. Are there orchids that grow normally with a red ring in their rhizome? I had an oncidium I trashed because I found it had that red ring but otherwise appeared perfectly healthy. I was afraid to keep it because if it was fusarium, the spores would continue to multiply allowing it to infect my other orchids.

I also asked a commercial grower how they controlled fusarium and he told me they sprayed weekly. There are only a few chemicals that can prevent fusarium from spreading in a plant which is what the commercial growers are using but would be difficult for the hobbyist to afford.

I would love any insight as to whether some orchids grow normally with a red ring in their rhizome which isn't a symptom of fusarium.
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  #6  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:02 PM
Lamia189 Lamia189 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon's Sheepdogs View Post
That really is a good question. Are there orchids that grow normally with a red ring in their rhizome? I had an oncidium I trashed because I found it had that red ring but otherwise appeared perfectly healthy. I was afraid to keep it because if it was fusarium, the spores would continue to multiply allowing it to infect my other orchids.

I also asked a commercial grower how they controlled fusarium and he told me they sprayed weekly. There are only a few chemicals that can prevent fusarium from spreading in a plant which is what the commercial growers are using but would be difficult for the hobbyist to afford.

I would love any insight as to whether some orchids grow normally with a red ring in their rhizome which isn't a symptom of fusarium.
Yeah, I agree. Would love to know what makes some orchids have naturally red rings and how would you recognize fusarium in these guys?? It would be great if someone could add to that.
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  #7  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:04 PM
Fernando Fernando is offline
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I didn't say anything about 'red rings' ...

I'm not going to cut my Miltonia just to see if there is a red ring.
For me ,if a plant looks healthy, it is healthy. No need to search further for symptoms ...

New plants out of the packet I just search for obvious rotting due to warmth, or humidity and stale air (normal); keeping the plants on the dry side the first days and slowly adapting them to more light, that's all. Sometimes there are a few scales or other stuff; as I've always a jar with water, soap and a soft brush at hand, that also is no problem.
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  #8  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:23 PM
Lamia189 Lamia189 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando View Post
I didn't say anything about 'red rings' ...

I'm not going to cut my Miltonia just to see if there is a red ring.
For me ,if a plant looks healthy, it is healthy. No need to search further for symptoms ...

New plants out of the packet I just search for obvious rotting due to warmth, or humidity and stale air (normal); keeping the plants on the dry side the first days and slowly adapting them to more light, that's all. Sometimes there are a few scales or other stuff; as I've always a jar with water, soap and a soft brush at hand, that also is no problem.
I was going to remove that pseudo bulb anyway because it wouldnt fit in the bigger pot I've prepares for it and the plant was all ugly and stretched out. It had plenty of other pseudobulbs. And if miltonias don't usually have red rings then this is definitely fusarium. I thought you meant that the rings are okay and now I don't know if I've infected my oncidiums with it 😑 can anyone else please either confirm or tell me that this isn't fusarium? :/ I have apologized to shwerter for wanting my money back for getting sick orchids but now it turns out it can be fusarium after all... Please be specific next time :/
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  #9  
Old 03-10-2017, 03:18 PM
Sharon's Sheepdogs Sharon's Sheepdogs is offline
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Fernando, I don't blame you. I wouldn't cut into the pseudobulbs that appear healthy either. My situation was like Lamias. I purchased a new Oncidium. The plant was large so I was dividing it so I could fit it into two separate pots. Then I saw the red ring. Otherwise, the plant appeared very healthy.

However, I had a bad experience with two orchids infected with Fusarium in the past & ended up infecting some of my other orchids. I ended up doing a lot of research on this disease. Based on what I found, I ended up not taking a chance on the Oncidium and disposed of it away from my other orchids. Fusarium is a difficult disease and it can't be cured. With certain chemical fungicides, the disease can be controlled but these chemicals are very expensive.

The problem with Fusarium is it can exist in a plant, which will continue to grow and flower, until the fungus has taken over the entire vascular system of the orchid. When this occurs, the orchid can no longer take up water. It can take up to a year before the orchid dies although symptoms should begin to develop over that period. The entire time the orchid is infected, the fungus multiplies rapidly and is able to infect other plants from fans blowing or when watering.

So that is the conundrum. If you have a red ring in the vascular system of the plant that is otherwise healthy, is that a positive sign of a fusarium infection which the red ring normally is or are there some orchids that grow naturally with a red ring where there is no infection.

I discussed the issue of Fusarium infection recently in another post which might be helpful for Lamia. The post is located at:

Fusarium and bacterial outbreak, physan, daconil, thiomyl, or copper based compund?

The bottom line is that the orchid may need to be sent for testing before a determination can be made whether it is positive for Fusarium since there are no other symptoms yet.

Furthermore, there may not be other symptoms at this time because the nursery where the orchid was purchased from may participate in a spray program specifically to control this disease and other fungual diseases. This could prevent the symptoms from manifesting until the orchid is in the hobbyist's hands for a period of time who is not using the same fungicide program.

In the meantime, there are three websites for reading about Fusarium which I recommend to anyone interested in understanding this disease.

The first is an article in pdf form so I can't give you a link. To read the article, just google the following: Fusarium in Phalaenopsis by Sue Bottom

The second is a site also mentioned in Sue Bottom's article: Hark-Orchideen - Competence in Orchids

The third is an article on Fungal Infections at:

Home page of OrchidsAmore and si

Lamia, I wish I could tell you definitely whether it's Fusarium or not but I can't. I'm hoping some of the other members can help on this issue and whether some orchids normally grow with the red/pink ring.
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  #10  
Old 03-11-2017, 02:01 PM
Lamia189 Lamia189 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon's Sheepdogs View Post
Fernando, I don't blame you. I wouldn't cut into the pseudobulbs that appear healthy either. My situation was like Lamias. I purchased a new Oncidium. The plant was large so I was dividing it so I could fit it into two separate pots. Then I saw the red ring. Otherwise, the plant appeared very healthy.

However, I had a bad experience with two orchids infected with Fusarium in the past & ended up infecting some of my other orchids. I ended up doing a lot of research on this disease. Based on what I found, I ended up not taking a chance on the Oncidium and disposed of it away from my other orchids. Fusarium is a difficult disease and it can't be cured. With certain chemical fungicides, the disease can be controlled but these chemicals are very expensive.

The problem with Fusarium is it can exist in a plant, which will continue to grow and flower, until the fungus has taken over the entire vascular system of the orchid. When this occurs, the orchid can no longer take up water. It can take up to a year before the orchid dies although symptoms should begin to develop over that period. The entire time the orchid is infected, the fungus multiplies rapidly and is able to infect other plants from fans blowing or when watering.

So that is the conundrum. If you have a red ring in the vascular system of the plant that is otherwise healthy, is that a positive sign of a fusarium infection which the red ring normally is or are there some orchids that grow naturally with a red ring where there is no infection.

I discussed the issue of Fusarium infection recently in another post which might be helpful for Lamia. The post is located at:

Fusarium and bacterial outbreak, physan, daconil, thiomyl, or copper based compund?

The bottom line is that the orchid may need to be sent for testing before a determination can be made whether it is positive for Fusarium since there are no other symptoms yet.

Furthermore, there may not be other symptoms at this time because the nursery where the orchid was purchased from may participate in a spray program specifically to control this disease and other fungual diseases. This could prevent the symptoms from manifesting until the orchid is in the hobbyist's hands for a period of time who is not using the same fungicide program.

In the meantime, there are three websites for reading about Fusarium which I recommend to anyone interested in understanding this disease.

The first is an article in pdf form so I can't give you a link. To read the article, just google the following: Fusarium in Phalaenopsis by Sue Bottom

The second is a site also mentioned in Sue Bottom's article: Hark-Orchideen - Competence in Orchids

The third is an article on Fungal Infections at:

Home page of OrchidsAmore and si

Lamia, I wish I could tell you definitely whether it's Fusarium or not but I can't. I'm hoping some of the other members can help on this issue and whether some orchids normally grow with the red/pink ring.

Thank you very very much for your detailed response. I am going to stay on the safe side and not take any chances with the miltonias. I will wait for an email from shwerter and then either dispose of them or send them back. Just to be sure I have cut off a bulb in each of the oncidiums and they are fine. But since they were in the same box and I may have infected them while I was working on the miltonias, I will just put them separately and keep an eye on them. I hope boiling the stuff I have used for the miltonias like the scissors etc is enough, because I don't have bleach or anything right now :/ thank you so much again for all the useful information!
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