Potential Cymbidium pseudobulb rot?

[Wingston75]

Hi everyone,

first time poster here (and resurrected orchid enthusiast).

I've just built up a new orchid collection and in the process of fitting out an IKEA cabinet to become my orchidarium. Until the fern panels and corkbark are all fitted - and whilst its still early in the year - I've had the vast majority of my collection sitting atop the cabinet just beside our front room bay window.

This morning I noticed that one of the prides of my new collection - a Cymbidium Kiwi Midnight (bought from eBay,), which has two large, plum and firm brown backbulbs, one previous, much more slender bulb growth, and a new shoot coming off the aforementioned slender growth - has what potentially looks like a case of pseudobulb rot on the slender growth (photo <hopefully> attached to this post.
in the picture there's a horizontal white highlight on this slender growth. Below this highlight, the bulb is firm, above it, it feels softer and can be depressed when applying pressure.

My questions are:
i. does this look like a case of pseudobulb rot, and;
ii. is the new growth shoot in danger? And - if so - is is possible for me save the new shoot by removing the growth and cut away this slender pseudobulb, separate the new growth (both with sterilized rubbing alcohol scalpel) and then repot the new growth (poss treating with cinammon powder, I have read?)?

And if so, should it go in a different pot (with/without the established backbulbs) with fresh potting mix?

for complete info , the ave temp of the room is around 16-18C / 61-65F in the day (not sure of the night as I'm in bed!), and the humidity between 58-63%. The cabinet (which this orchid has not yet been in), has growlights and a fan for air circ, no additional heating. The fern panels will be fitted back and side for natural look and to retain humidity, and it will have a coir floor, with live sphag moss covering.

Thanks in advance for anyone's help - I desperately want to ensure this orchid isnt lost, I hunted high and low for this plant as I had my heart set on it.

[Roberta]

First, Welcome!

The larger pseudobulbs don't look great. Definitely don't divide or cut... that shoot is likely in response to the adjoining p-bulb maybe not making it, but it depends on the older p-bulbs for sustenance while it grows. the new shoot has zero chance of surviving on its own at this point.

As far as repotting goes, how does the mix look? if it is old or there is any odor, repot. That will also give you a chance to look at the roots, The timing is good, this is when Cyms are in active growth. Some things to think about:
1. Cyms like to stay on the damp side
2. They need very high light (like, as soon as nights are above 10 deg C or so, it will be much happier outside, and since sun angle is still fairly low, a good time to acclimate it to sun so that by summer it can take full sun where you live.
3. To bloom, it needs conditions in the fall that may be a challenge for you - warm days and cool nights.

Once acclimated, it can tolerate winter night temperatures of 2-3 deg C easily (down to -1 or -2 for short periods) especially if it gets warmer during the day (18-20 deg C) In summer, it can be happy with lots of warmth - 40 deg C won't bother it at all.

It is going to be a challenge to grow and bloom this under your controlled conditions if you are trying to grow it with other orchids that need a more even envirionment... Most Cyms really thrive on extremes.

[estación seca]

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

Did it get too cold in transit? How are you watering?

I look up hybrids on orchidroots.com. This one has mostly cool to intermediate growing ancestors. It won't take freezing but your winter daytime highs should be OK.

Cymbidiums are large, high-light plants. They would be difficult to grow well inside a cabinet.

The only things I've seen cause this kind of trouble are insufficient light and too-cool temperatures.

[Wingston75]

Hi both,

thanks for sharing your wisdom here and also for the welcomes!

so... the mix has no smell about it. when the plant arrived, it came a day or so after being posted from inside the UK, so (to my knowledge) it hadnt been deprived of light for any length of time.

Since it arrived, it has been sat on the top of the cabinet (which is around 80cm x 37cm surface area on the top), with all of my other orchids. [I'm waiting to deck out the cabinet properly with the fern panels etc, before putting them in, and was thinking that it was probably still early enough in the year to have them out on the top, as on reading care instructions it seemed common that most orchids like dryer conditions and sparser waterings in the cooler months of the year.]

Thus, i'm currently only watering most of them all sparingly - ones without pseudobulbs I water when their sphag mix is dry to the touch; ones with bulbs less so. I've a couple in baskets with just air roots, which are hanging in the bays of the window, these get watered every two days at the moment - a 15min soak in a tub of rainwater nearly covering all of the roots, before being allowed to drip dry before rehanging.

I'd say that, given that they're all on the top at the moment, there is indeed a good chance this cym may not be getting sufficient light. I have been trying to arrange the smaller plants front-most towards the window, and this one is mid-stage (so to speak). I've now moved in onto the windowledge (the days are not overly hot right now - do you think there would still be the potential for this immature growth to be scorched even in daylight that isnt searingly bright sunshine? (since it has been on the top of the cabinet, it I have watched it slowly growing longer with each passing day).

So should this cymbidium's potting mix be kept moist all year round instead of letting it dry out between waterings?

Re encouraging it to flower, we do have rooms in our house where it would get more light and probably a fair boost in temperature as well. Would it possibly be worth putting it outside overnight in the fall to get those cooler temperatures? (I'd just be concerned that the Fox that maurades through our garden would want to come and investigate the exact thing I dont want it to remotely near).

Tbh, I wasnt really envisaging growing this one in the cabinet as I did think it would be a bit large for the cabinet. Likewise, the Monnierara Millenium Magic and Fredclarkeara After Dark 'SVO Black Pearl' I also have. At the moment, I've just been keeping them all together as it was winter. (sounds like this wasnt a smart move!)

Thanks again!

[Wingston75]

Oh, and for comparison purposes below is a pic taken by the seller. It's a fair bit greener there (though a tiny bit of brown creeping in at the bottom if that newer growth is still visible, now I view it again).

Alas, I didnt record what it looked like upon arrival, though I dont recall it looking strikingly different from this image here.

[Roberta]

The Cym should live outside as long as there is no danger of frost - so about 9 months out of the year should be fine, at least. Cyms do not like to dry out - while they can grow as epiphytes, they are more terrestrial than most of your orchids. I grow mine in fine bark, they are damp all the time. This is a good time to move it out... let that shoot grow and also acclimate to more light which it will get as the summer approaches. To get it to flower, what it really wants is cool nights and warmer days - your challenge will be getting enough light and warmth i autumn, hope that Mother Nature cooperates.

For climate, the name "Kiwi Midnight" should give you a hint... it was bred in New Zealand. Most of its awards were in southern California, and that's where it got named. Both centers of Cumbidium growing, outdoors (mostly frost free)

Your Casatinae (Monn. Millenium Magic and Fdk. After Dart grow completely differently - they don't want to go below 10 deg C ever. Need to be totally dry in winter, and until new roots are 10 cm long or so when watering can begin. Then once they are in full growth, water water water water, you can't give them too much. One thing both groups have in common is that when in active growth (like spring/summer) they are heavy feeders because they are growing fast. I add a top dressing of time-release fertilzer - Cyms now, Catasetinae when I start watering, to give an extra boost. Then in the fall, cut back the fertilizer until you aren't giving any.

---------- Post added at 02:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

A good time to repot that Cym... it's climbing out of its pot. Allow about 2 years' growth when choosing the next size of pot.

[estación seca]

A lot of things in that last post... Different orchids have extremely different temperature, light and watering requirements. Read up on the care your specific plants need.

Cymbidiums need to stay moist all year. They should really never dry out, especially when making new growth. If you've kept it dry while it's making a shoot that could cause a lot of damage.

Being in the box without light isn't a problem for some weeks. I was wondering whether it was exposed to freezing temperatures in transit. It looks like that might have happened. Multiple pseudobulbs dying together can also be caused by being dry too long.

Cymbidiums prefer very high light. They can grow outside in full sun in many parts of the northern US. In sunny southern California they need a little shade cloth to look their best, but they will survive in full sun. I don't think any would have trouble with full English sun exposure outdoors, and I can't imagine one getting enough light indoors in England except perhaps in a glasshouse, or with supplemental electric lighting. They make very weak growth in poor light, and are more susceptible to other problems.

Your Monniera and Fredclarkeara have very specific winter dormancy requirements. I suggest you go to the Sunset Valley Orchid Society Web site and look at the Cultural Information section for Catasetinae. Watering them at the wrong time of year can actually kill them.

There is a Cymbidium forum here on Orchid Board, accessible via the left yellow menu. Page through it and read about growing them. There are a lot of Cymbidium growers here, like Roberta and Cym Ladye in California, Fairorchids in New Jersey and rbarata in Portugal.

[Roberta]

Just to give you an idea of how tough Cymbidiums are, this is the nursery where Kiwi Midnight (and many, many other awarded Cyms are grown), when there was a serious freeze. Two weeks after the "Ice treatment" that big yellow Cym was in a show.
Ice 2007

[Wingston75]

Thanks so much, both

I'll give it a water tomorrow (not too cold though? I've been reading recently that often water temp is overlooked and can influence a plant's growth also). I certainly don't want to harm that new shoot.

re different conditions for my different plants - I have compiled a google sheet listing their various requirements, linking to online resources etc. I think it's going to take a while to all stick in my head, but I plan on regularly revisiting them all until it has.

I really appreciate you both taking the time to guide and advise here! As soon as the temp outside is above 10 at night (It just took a dip back down to 1C the past 2-3 nights!) I'll look at getting it outside, poss hanging it off the pergola in our garden.

And aye, I'll be sure to check out those links too, thanks

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Roberta

Just to give you an idea of how tough Cymbidiums are, this is the nursery where Kiwi Midnight (and many, many other awarded Cyms are grown), when there was a serious freeze. Two weeks after the "Ice treatment" that big yellow Cym was in a show.

That is insane. Hard to think they would come through that intact...

[Roberta]

Don't worry about water temp for the Cym. It's a cool-growing orchid, not tropical. It's pretty shock-proof. Once acclimated, 1 deg C is no big deal. But having been grown indoors, maybe wait until night temps are above 4 deg C or so ... Again, it can tolerate much more cold than the Catasetinae which DO have tropical origins.