Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves
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  #1  
Old 01-17-2021, 01:27 PM
Tcc85 Tcc85 is offline
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Default Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves

Hello,

I have been struggling to keep this orchid happy for some years now. Remarkably it didn't gave up on me yet. I got it back in 2005 and it should hae been bigger, but due to the personal matters I wasn't taking care of it for 6 years. It was in the care of my sister in law and i finally got it back with only 2 miniscule leaves.

It's doing significantly better now but what's bogging me are the black dots on the leaves. The leaves start out fine, nice and light green, but seem to develop these spots later. It doesn't affect all leaves though. The spots are visible on the upper side as well as the underside of the leaf and seem to be more concentrated around the base of the leaf. Leaves are smooth to the touch.

Any ideas about their ID, origin?

20210115_123448 by Click-er, on Flickr
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2021, 02:49 PM
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Mr.Fakename Mr.Fakename is offline
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Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves Male
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Is it a var chattaladae?

If so I've seen a few of those with reddish spots. It might just be normal.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2021, 04:41 PM
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estación seca estación seca is offline
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Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves Male
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What are your temperatures day/night?
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Weather forecast for my neighborhood
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2021, 07:12 PM
Orchidtinkerer Orchidtinkerer is offline
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Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves
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Some people call them freckles.
I don't really like them myself but I haven't found out if they are a problem or not. One leaf I managed to practically eliminate the "problem" then the next leaf grew more freckled than ever before as you can see.

I thought it was a deficiency first, then it went away but then it came back stronger than ever so I thought maybe it was insect damage but I've seen lots of chattaladea with the freckles so I'm startnig to accept it is just genetic.
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2021, 12:17 PM
Tcc85 Tcc85 is offline
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Hello all, thank you for your replies!

It is the regular cornu-cervi

Quote:
Originally Posted by estación seca View Post
What are your temperatures day/night?
In the winter the day the day temperatures are between 22 and 25 °C (72-77 °F), and it drops for a few degrees in the night, but never below 20 (68 °F).

In the summer, from 20-28 °C (68-82 °F) during the day, but the night can be somewhat cooler, down to 18 °C (64 °F).

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer View Post
Some people call them freckles.
I don't really like them myself but I haven't found out if they are a problem or not. One leaf I managed to practically eliminate the "problem" then the next leaf grew more freckled than ever before as you can see.

I thought it was a deficiency first, then it went away but then it came back stronger than ever so I thought maybe it was insect damage but I've seen lots of chattaladea with the freckles so I'm startnig to accept it is just genetic.
Yes, it looks exactly like this! I like the idea of freckles, though. Was worried it might be some kind of fungal infection, but it didn't quite add up, so I decided to ask if someone has some similar experience...
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2021, 05:10 PM
Orchidtinkerer Orchidtinkerer is offline
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Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves
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I am still not sure I like them. I'd prefer one without the freckles
Mine is still young and hasn't flowered but it seems like a vigorous grower for a phal, producing good roots and so it seems in good health as I am sure yours is too.
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Old 01-05-2022, 05:49 PM
Shadeflower Shadeflower is offline
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Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves
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A year ago someone asked here what causes fleckles on certain orchids.
There wasn't much knowledge about the matter. There still isn't but I am fairly sure the latest leaf on my cornu-cervi that also has freckles has stopped.

I've had to wait like a month to make sure they had disappeared and it has happened that they had disappeared only to return again but this time I went in with my new found research and I think it seems it is working.

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Old 01-07-2022, 02:27 PM
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Interesting! Do you care to share your findidng and research or are you just teasing us?
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Old 01-07-2022, 05:23 PM
Shadeflower Shadeflower is offline
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Phalaenopsis cornu-cervi with black spots on leaves
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Hey Tcc,
didn't realize you were still here. How is yours doing?
I've been slowly documenting me changing my fertilizer schedule a little recently but I didn't really feel I had an audience that was interested till now.
So full disclosure there are two things I have changed.

1) I doubled the micro nutrients I was feeding, even a little more Iron on top
2) According to the latest research I concluded that Phalaenopsis benefit from getting fertilized with a bloom feed instead of a grow feed. Something like N-P-K in the ratio of 1-2-2 or 1-2-3

Before that I was feeding with a ratio of 1-0.2-1

I have still not fully decided if it was the added micronutrients, the phosphorus or the potassium that has helped the most.

I initially concluded I needed more phosphorous but I quickly discovered that adding just Phosphorous in turn caused a Potassium deficiency, leaves started randomly turning yellow. So I had to add Potassium too and have seen some great results some orchids, this one included but it is a slow process.

Like I was telling someone else the only way to know for sure is to compare leaf sizes, flowering before and after and see if Phals really do grow better with a bloom formula like 1-2-3. I had little to lose - most of my warm growing phals hadn't flowered in the past 6 months and roots were not growing as well.

But it would be interesting to know what fertilizer you have been using to compare.

If you have been using a balanced fertilizer like 10-10-10 then it would be impossible to be caused by a phosphorus deficiency in your plants. It could still be from a lack of micronutrients but I am still leaning towards the phosphorus making this difference.

It is very very hard to make conclusions on orchids. Like I said me feeding more phosphorus seemed like it fixed one thing yet made even more problems appear so luckily I knew instantly what I was dealing with and how to fix it.

Please don't just go trying something new unless you understand what you are doing.

I worked out precisely how much of each nutrient I had been feeding and how much P and K and micronutrients I had to add.

I came to the following conclusions overall but this is just my formula for this year and everyone has their own preferred formula, Lots use 20-20-20. Some use a special ratio they like. Like mentioned for phals I am for the first time trying 1-2-3.

But my overall observations are as follows:

P should roughly equal Mg
Ca should be roughly twice as high as Mg
K should be 3 times your P value
Then N half the K
Fe should be 1/20th of Ca

But one thing I am seeing as a result is lighter leaves overall. The spots are not developing but leaves are growing much lighter than I am used to.

So it could possibly be that as a result of feeding more P and K the ratio of Nitrogen has been reduced so maybe just a slight maybe I have induced a Nitrogen deficiency but I really doubt it as a Nitrogen deficiency starts from bottom leaves and at the leaf tips generally. Whereas what I am seeing is new growth growing lighter than old growth which I think is a good sign but I do just want to add that as something to keep an eye on long term.

I could have just given a very simple answer but I want to point out how when it comes to fertilizing there are firstly a million different opinions, some people will hate me posting my opinion because they will have a completely different opinion and I don't want to step on any toes but I don't want to keep any of my secrets either.
Some would argue I should wait 10 years before discussing my results as orchids grow so slow and if I haven't tested all possibilities then I could be giving bad advice.
secondy it is very difficult to know for sure the conclusion you make will be the same for another grower.

So I hope that is clear, I have only been using this new formula for roughly 3 months and probably a bit less on this one.

I'm not very good at keeping my secrets for the next 10 years to decide if I can narrow it down more to give a better answer...

But my answer is vague because I cannot say with certainty which of the minor changes I made has ultimately made the biggest difference.

Please let us know what you have been using to fertilize and what ratio it has. If you were using a similar ratio to me then it could be caused by the same thing but if not then that helps too as it means it might be due to micronutrients.

Anyway, I hope this all makes sense and how it might not be the easy fix although it's not difficult either, just work out how much doubling the micronutrients needs adding and/or how much P/K to add.

I use this calculator to help work out what my fertilizer contains and how much to add on top of that

Water Soluble Fertilizer Calculator

PS: What ultimately gave me the push to try what I have mentioned, especially for phals was that the latest fertilizer I am trying says on the label to feed what I am saying. According to Orchid Focus for phalaenopsis you should use their bloom feed all year which has a ratio of 1-1.5-2.5
Just thought I should add that too.
So it's not like I am doing something nobody has tried before. It should reassure people to know it is a formula that millions of people already use if they are following the instruction on the label.

Alternatively if this is all too comlicated like I mentioned just see if you can buy some Orchid Focus Bloom.

It has all the micronutrients and ratio I am copying basically. So that is the easiest fix if you can find it in your country.

healthy leaf color vs unhealthy (not only caused by lack of light!)

Last edited by Shadeflower; 01-07-2022 at 08:58 PM..
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2022, 06:47 AM
Tcc85 Tcc85 is offline
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Wow Shadeflower, this is quite an experiment you are preforming!

I kind of gave up and am not bothered by freckles any more. I would say I am merely curious.
My fertilising schedule is not optimal I must say because I frequently forget to fertilise. However when I do, i use a fertiliser from Schwerter Orchideenzucht and I've been pleased with the results so far. My P. japonica is putting on a 4th spike in a year, so I'm super excited and I guess it is satisfied with the growing conditions and nutrient (unless it's about to kick the bucket... )

P. cornu-cervi has also produced a spike, first after several years and it's been blooming since July with small stops in between. I guess it's happy?

[IMG]20210710_181406 by Click-er, on Flickr[/IMG]

The fertiliser I use has the following ratio of macronutrients: 14:7:8 and 2% of Mg, and the following micronutrients: 0.010% B, 0.015% Cu, 0.030% Fe, 0.030% Mn, 0.001% Mo, and 0.015% Zn.

I did a quick search and I can get my hands on Orchid Focus Bloom. Maybe I'll give it a try but have to create a fertilising regime and most importantly, stick to it
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