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  #1  
Old 11-29-2020, 01:41 AM
sabina88 sabina88 is offline
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Default 100% Root Loss Repotting

I just got this new guy today, banfieldara gilded tower 'mystic maze'. I had a feeling the roots would be bad but when I unpotted it, low and behold 0 roots. Thankfully the new grow is just starting to put out roots so it should recover quickly. Anyways, my question pertains to the oldest pseudobulb (the one with no leaves for reference). When I was removing the dead roots it was a bit wiggly and I kind of feel like I could easily remove it by hand. But because there's so few pseudobulbs, and their so shriveled I wasn't sure if I should keep it on for now. So my question is, should I leave it until it reestablishes itself better or do you think i'm ok to just remove it now at this point?
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2020, 06:41 AM
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You can just pot that orchid as-is. Maintain good warm growing temperature, and avoid having the media (and roots) down in the depths of the pot too wet for relatively long periods of time.

Also including some nice tips that could maybe be helpful in the future.

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Old 11-29-2020, 07:14 AM
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Rescuing Plants with No Roots
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2020, 11:52 AM
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You cut off the plant's living root system, not dead roots. If they had been dead and non-functional the leaves and pseudobulbs would have been wrinkled and spotted. Instead the plant looks small, but healthy.

Essentially all the root cutting videos on YouTube are incorrect.

One new root is white and green. The cut brown stubs are all living roots. Don't cut off roots. You can't tell which are living and which are dead.
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:01 PM
Orchidtinkerer Orchidtinkerer is offline
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Hey sabina,
yes those roots look in terrible shape. You will actually find that if you gently tug on each root they will already be detached from the plant and will pull away with hardly any force, try it, I can see from the picture they are hollow.
I would recommend you do that as the root stubs you have left behind will just rot and cause problems. It is just around the stem the plant is most vunerable and this is where all your dead stubs are clustered.
Since there is some disagreement on whether the roots are alive or not and whether all yutube videos are wrong it would be great if you could confirm or not whether the roots are in fact loose or not when gently pulling on the ends. That is the best way of telling.
What you do with that last pseudobulb is up to you, no harm leaving it for the plant to suck out any last reserves before it will shrivel up and dry by itself.

Last edited by Orchidtinkerer; 11-29-2020 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Don't cut off roots. You can't tell which are living and which are dead.
I'll add something...it's important, when repoting plants, that they are stable and firm in the pot as the movement may damage new emerging roots.
Dead roots, althought not functional, help to anchor the plant in the new medium.
Usually I don't cut any roots, unless they are rot and in risk of spreading it to other parts of the plant.
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Last edited by rbarata; 11-29-2020 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:04 PM
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It is normal for older, living orchid roots to have loose velamen around the thin core of living roots. They still function to take up water. Don't cut old roots.
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:13 PM
sabina88 sabina88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer View Post
Hey sabina,
yes those roots look in terrible shape. You will actually find that if you gently tug on each root they will already be detached from the plant and will pull away with hardly any force, try it, I can see from the picture they are hollow.
I would recommend you do that as the root stubs you have left behind will just rot and cause problems. It is just around the stem the plant is most vunerable and this is where all your dead stubs are clustered.
Since there is some disagreement on whether the roots are alive or not and whether all yutube videos are wrong it would be great if you could confirm or not whether the roots are in fact loose or not when gently pulling on the ends. That is the best way of telling.
What you do with that last pseudobulb is up to you, no harm leaving it for the plant to suck out any last reserves before it will shrivel up and dry by itself.
They actually repotted it in the store before I got it. Which was about 4 months ago according to the tag, so its been rootless for at least that long. There was no nubbins, just roots that weren't cut supper close to the rhizome. But I cleaned it up as much as I could. I'm of the belief you can tell if a orchid root dies, and that they do die. But that's just my opinion. I have experience with rootless and mostly rootless orchids, so im not worried about that, and the new growth is starting to produce roots so it should be able to start getting rehydrated soon. But I wasn't sure just how helpfull that old seedling psudobulb still is at this point. Thanks for the advice .

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by estación seca View Post
You cut off the plant's living root system, not dead roots. If they had been dead and non-functional the leaves and pseudobulbs would have been wrinkled and spotted. Instead the plant looks small, but healthy.

Essentially all the root cutting videos on YouTube are incorrect.

One new root is white and green. The cut brown stubs are all living roots. Don't cut off roots. You can't tell which are living and which are dead.

They pseudobulbs are actually very shriveled, i guess it might be the angle that makes it look like they aren't, especially since you can't see much of them. I added some better photos of the pseudobulbs for reference. It was actually repotted, and there for cut, in the store before I got it (about 4 months ago according to the tag). Anything left on there was all dead and mushy. Thanks for the advice .
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Last edited by sabina88; 11-29-2020 at 09:31 PM..
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2020, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabina88 View Post
They actually repotted it in the store before I got it. Which was about 4 months ago according to the tag, so its been rootless for at least that long.
Not necessarily.

When roots grow, they “tailor” themselves to function optimally in that environment. Once they have grown, they cannot change. Repotting involves changing the environment (even the change from aged to fresh versions of the same material), which renders the existing roots to be suboptimal, and they will start to fail. Depending upon the degree of difference between old and new conditions, that could be weeks or months.

The trick is getting a new root system that is tailored to that new environment, whether by waiting to repot until new roots are emerging from the base of the plant, or encouraging them to grow after the fact. Neither was apparently done in this case.
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2020, 12:26 PM
sabina88 sabina88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Not necessarily.

When roots grow, they “tailor” themselves to function optimally in that environment. Once they have grown, they cannot change. Repotting involves changing the environment (even the change from aged to fresh versions of the same material), which renders the existing roots to be suboptimal, and they will start to fail. Depending upon the degree of difference between old and new conditions, that could be weeks or months.

The trick is getting a new root system that is tailored to that new environment, whether by waiting to repot until new roots are emerging from the base of the plant, or encouraging them to grow after the fact. Neither was apparently done in this case.
They wrote on the tag when they repoted it in the store, so that would be the minimum time it was rootless. When I unpotted it the roots were already gone/cut.
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