Purple Martin: Limp, Pale Leaves

[BigGreenLeaf]

Hi everyone,

I have a question about my purple martin. it seems a bit unhappy. I bought it at a local orchid show about a week ago now.

It's got one huge, lovely leaf but it is pale and droopy. Some of it's other leaves are also pale.

I am trying to figure out what is wrong. I've been treating it like my NoID Phal letting it nearly dry out before re-watering.

- It's very warm here right now, around 21 C in the house all of the time.
- It is not in direct sunlight but gets some of the sun coming through our East facing window.
- It's still blooming but did loose one of it's older blooms recently.
- It is in sphagnum moss/orchid bark mix (about 80/20) because that's how I bought it and that's how I keep my other phal. Also where I live it is extremely dry right now.
- The container it is in has tons of holes in it to encourage the moss to dry out fully.
- It does not live over a humidity tray yet, but I want to move it over one if you guys think it needs it.
- Just looked at the roots, most are green, but I noticed at least one where the root sheath had gone grey and was like not attached to the root anymore?


I apologize, but my phone is on the fritz and I can't take any photos of it. The leaves are pale green but not yellow (one leaf is on its way to being yellow though).

I have however included a photo I took on the day I bought it, you can see that there was light green/yellowing in the leaves then, this is now the color of most of the leaves and the larger leaves you see in the photo are all a droopy now. There is NO wrinkling on the leaves.

Any tips or ideas?

[silken]

Everything you describe sounds OK culture wise. Mine are in the house where it is at least 21C and that is not too warm by any means. I am not using humidity trays. Are you sure there is no bright sun hitting it? That could be making the leaves turn yellow. I can't see the roots in the pot, only one aerial root. Have you slid it out of the pot to really examine the roots?

[BigGreenLeaf]

Originally Posted by silken

Everything you describe sounds OK culture wise. Mine are in the house where it is at least 21C and that is not too warm by any means. I am not using humidity trays. Are you sure there is no bright sun hitting it? That could be making the leaves turn yellow. I can't see the roots in the pot, only one aerial root. Have you slid it out of the pot to really examine the roots?

Hi Silken,

I had it totally out of the pot when I got it, because it cane in a plastic baggie when I bought it, so I unwrapped most of the moss (mostly to loosen it up) and got a pretty good look at the roots. Everything seemed good at that time. When I posted this I just moved some of the moss to peek at the roots. Do you think it's best that I take it out again and have another look?

I'm pretty sure it's not getting any bright sunlight at all, as I have it kind of around the corner from the window, but I will move it even further back to where my other Phal is happily sitting and see if that improves matters.

[silken]

I wouldn't disturb it again if you just looked. If your other Phal is happy elsewhere, I would place it nearby. Healthy roots are green when wet and silvery gray/white when dry. So they should come close to dry within the pot before giving them a good watering and letting them drain well. I can't think what else might be wrong. If you know who the orchid vendor is, you could try contacting them and they may be able to help or at least know it is not doing well. If it has good roots, it shouldn't be going limp in those temps and no direct light. Does the crown look OK, no black rot or anything?

[BigGreenLeaf]

Crown looks good and green, no black rot that I can see. Nothing suspicious at all. I have moved it over the where the other phal is and will update in a few days about if it is doing any better. Maybe it is too moist at it's center. How long would you wit before it would be safe to disturb it again? Perhaps this weekend I will go in and have a closer look at the roots. My NoID Phal is actually doing relly good since I actually made it so there is essentially no moss or substrate at all directly under the crown of the plant, but instead its more arounds the around and in with the roots. It's been happy since I did that. I think it gives it room to humidify the air directly surrounding the roots without actually wetting them. I might try a similar thing with the blue martin. I know the pale green (on its own) is usually associated with too much light so maybe it will be happier further from the window. We will see I suppose!

[silken]

I don't think I would disturb it again any time soon. Orchids like to get established so lifting it out all the time won't help. You could use the skewer method to determine if it is wet or dry down in the pot. Many on here do this including me to determine when the plants need water. Just take a thin bamboo kebab skewer and carefully insert it into the pot down deep and near the center. Try not to stab roots. Leave it there. When you think it is time to water, pull it out and see if it is wet or dry. Use it as a gauge as to when it is time for watering. Place it back in the same place so roots aren't pierced every time. What you could do is find some seaweed at a hydroponics store and add it to your water for the next few weeks. It really promotes root growth.

I looked Purple Martin up in OrchidWiz. It is 3/4 Phal. violacea. This species is known for having bright lime green shiny leaves. So the pale green leaves might be normal and much paler than some other hybrid Phals.

[BigGreenLeaf]

Originally Posted by silken

I don't think I would disturb it again any time soon. Orchids like to get established so lifting it out all the time won't help. You could use the skewer method to determine if it is wet or dry down in the pot. Many on here do this including me to determine when the plants need water. Just take a thin bamboo kebab skewer and carefully insert it into the pot down deep and near the center. Try not to stab roots. Leave it there. When you think it is time to water, pull it out and see if it is wet or dry. Use it as a gauge as to when it is time for watering. Place it back in the same place so roots aren't pierced every time. What you could do is find some seaweed at a hydroponics store and add it to your water for the next few weeks. It really promotes root growth.

I looked Purple Martin up in OrchidWiz. It is 3/4 Phal. violacea. This species is known for having bright lime green shiny leaves. So the pale green leaves might be normal and much paler than some other hybrid Phals.

I've had a lot of trouble with the skewer method actually. i was using it on this other Phal when it went through a period of me almost killing it because it was my first orchid (haha oops...) but I actually found the skewer would mold inbetween waterings so I stopped doing it! And now i've kind of figured out how often it needs watering. I will maybe give it a try with this purple martin but just temporarily I feel.

Really helpful to know that the lime green leaves (which is how I would describe the color) might be normal! So now it's just the droopiness that might be the issue. Perhaps too much water? I will go get a skewer and try that as well. Thanks agaiN!

[silken]

I think if it is getting mouldy, it might be too moist for too long. I have them in most of my 150 plants and don't have a problem with mould. Occasionally a bit dank smelling on the skewer but that is all.

[BigGreenLeaf]

That's good to know. To be fair the mould tended to form at the top of the skewer where it just penetrated the moss (again I have like no moss around the ball of this one Phal so that part never moulded but seemed to give me a good read on the humidity/moisture the roots were getting. I will give it another try =)