Dendrobium nobile + no flowering

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

you cannot claim you have experienced everything you have preached.

Anything that I haven't experienced (and I have experienced a lot in the orchid-growing process) I have observed, or discussed with people who know a lot more than I do. (I have had the privilege of knowing some outstanding orchid experts... they have taught me a lot, and occasionally I have given them some new knowledge,also) Swimmingorchids, check out my website Roberta's Orchids, you might learn something. (Yes, those are all my photos of my plants).

I also use "maybe", "perhaps", and similar qualifiers a lot, especially when I am guessing at someone else's conditions and applying concepts that I do know, in an unknown situation. And if I know that I DON'T have a record of success at something I have tried (such as deflasking seedlings) I'm not going to give advice about it... we have several contributors who have done this a lot, successfully, and they are the ones who will give GOOD information. A new grower is not in a good position to separate out the information from people who actually do have experience and knowledge from the musings of those who don't.(The Internet is full of both good and bad information, and it takes a base of knowledge to tell the difference) If you spread misinformation you'll be called on it.

[Swimmingorchids]

thats fine Roberta

I know I have personality issues but I have never clashed so much with a set of people before and its all down to me willing to try something new vs what all other orchid experts are doing and like you say the need of everyone to gasp and shout about it.

Lets not forget these orchid experts were the ones using soil to start with till they realised soil is no good.

I have come to the conclusion that spagnum moss is sparsely better than soil but that is my personal opinion and again not common consensus among experts who love the stuff. I prefer coco and perlite so far.

But this post is not about posting any misinformation as all I did post was that nobiles need a rest period with reduced temps.

I actually personally believe that ferts will not be a trigger for flowering whatsoever and what I have gathered form SaraJean's post it was reduced watering that made the difference in year 2 for her.

I might not have the answers that headbanger is looking for. What surprises me is that people that have been growing orchids for years and have known people before them growing for years that still don't have the answers either

[Ray]

I believe Swimmie has me blocked, but I'm stuck in the house while Hurricane Dorian has me pinned down, so I'll use this post to make a point.

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

thats fine Roberta

I know I have personality issues but I have never clashed so much with a set of people before and its all down to me willing to try something new vs what all other orchid experts are doing and like you say the need of everyone to gasp and shout about it.

No, I believe the "clashes" occur because you profess to knowing what you're talking about (with only one year of experience), but your statements prove otherwise. You'll note that pretty much anyone else here is capable of carrying on a civil conversation so we can learn from each other.

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

Lets not forget these orchid experts were the ones using soil to start with till they realised soil is no good.

Here's another example of your issues: How can you possibly know what ANY of us has done? Personally, I've never tried to grow an epiphytic orchid in soil, because I read up on the plants when I began, and am open-minded enough to actually listen to folks that know more than I, and there are plenty of them on this forum.

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

I have come to the conclusion that spagnum moss is sparsely better than soil but that is my personal opinion and again not common consensus among experts who love the stuff. I prefer coco and perlite so far.

At least this comment shows that it has occurred to you that others might have different but valid opinions, but I wonder if you grasp the reasons why.

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

I actually personally believe that ferts will not be a trigger for flowering whatsoever and what I have gathered form SaraJean's post it was reduced watering that made the difference in year 2 for her.

This has nothing to do with "personal beliefs". It's science.

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

I might not have the answers that headbanger is looking for. What surprises me is that people that have been growing orchids for years and have known people before them growing for years that still don't have the answers either

Yet another example of your issues - your unwillingness to acknowledge that others may actually know more about a subject than do you. No wonder it's confusing to you.

[SaraJean]

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

I might not have the answers that headbanger is looking for. What surprises me is that people that have been growing orchids for years and have known people before them growing for years that still don't have the answers either

I think the main problem is that when it comes to specifics, most growing advice is subjective. The goal is the same but how that is achieved is all based on that individual persons growing conditions. Sphagnum doesn’t work well for you, yet it works great for someone else. I can’t give many of my orchids as much light as someone who may live further north, but I can probably give more light than someone who lives a very low humidity area.

Same thing about you mentioning that it is the reduced water that probably made the difference for me. I would agree with this except many others need to water, at varying frequency, their Dens though out the winter rest. I don’t need to, so I don’t bother. Someone else’s conditions might mean they water once or twice a week. The goal is the same; it’s not necessary to completely dehydrate a resting Den in order to make it bloom. Another observation, I tried one of my semi-nobile types in semi-hydro. I kept the reservoir full all winter and I just used plain distilled or reverse osmosis water for it. It bloomed fine since it wasn’t getting fed. That’s why I asked what your experience had been since you stated in your initial post that fertilizer triggers blooms. Especially since if I fertilize too early the only thing it seems to trigger is keikies. If you’ve had a different experience, please share it! If you had a brain fart (which we all have at times), not a big deal. It’s not always about clashing, it’s more about learning.

[bukalala]

what temperatures you have during winter rest?How low can it goes and for how long?

Originally Posted by SaraJean

That has been working for your Nobile types? I will admit to being surprised. The typical recommendation is to stop fertilizer when the growth matures or about the beginning of autumn (usually that’s around the same time), reduce or withhold water, lower the temps, and increase the light a bit. Start watering and fertilizing again after the buds are formed or when it sends out new growth.

Personal experience (which is admittedly subjective) has been- first year: gave a cool dry bright rest with occasional light watering with tap water, reduced fertilizer but didn’t cut out completely till winter, started again in early spring. Got lots of keikis, no flowers. Second year: cool dry, bright rest, stopped all fertilizer in early fall, stopped all water late fall (I have very high winter humidity, so I did not get much shriveling), didn’t resume water till after initiation of new growth. Hardly any keikis, a massive amount of blooms. Third year: gave a cool, dry, bright rest with occasional watering of reverse osmosis water and stopped fertilizer in very late fall (oops). Tons of keikis, but not as many blooms. I now follow what I did the second year and have had great results. The cool down plus the lack of nutrients see to be the trigger. I have never noticed fertilizer to trigger blooms on these. If anything, any fertilizer too late in the year or too early, seamed to inhibit flower production. What has your experience been?


Headbanger
How big are these keikis now and are these the normal big, upright nobile hybrids? If they are still small you might just need more time. You could also try increasing the light for the winter. Mine are outside and get good temp variation between day and night, like Roberta. Most of my winter resting Dens get almost full sun during that time of the year, that will obviously depend on the intensity of the sun in your location though. And yes, post some pics of you can

Only other possibility I can think of is; are they well rooted in small pots? I had problems getting some of my Dens to bloom until they were pretty root bound in their pots. For example, I received a few large keikis off of the same plant. I mounted two and potted the other. The mounted ones bloomed the following year. The potted one didn’t bloom for almost 3 years when it finally had secured itself in the pot.

[aliceinwl]

Personally, I haven’t cared for the look of lots of “rooty” keikis on mine so I’ve been detaching and potting. This will be the first winter for most. The very first keiki I potted is now heading into it’s third winter. It was came from a parent with mature canes of ~30cm, it was about 12cm when I separated it and put it in a 8cm pot. I didn’t rest it the first winter but did rest it the second winter and it produced quite the display. It only grew to about 15cm in height but did grow roots like crazy. This year it started setting out a second cane.

I have trouble imagining keikis not making it to blooming size in 3 years unless they were really tiny when separated. My plants all get a lot of sun. Maybe things are just too shaded on your porch?

I’ve also found cutting way back on winter watering to be essential. I have goofed and accidentally hit my Dens with fertilizer once or twice in the winter but since it was very dilute and they were not getting much water it didn’t seem to hurt.

[rbarata]

BTW, my nobile has now two flowers...completely out of season.

[headbanger333]

Thanku all for comments. My 20 keikis are 3 years old but not flowering. I stopped fertilizer in Autumn along with reducing water. They got a sprinkle fortnightly. They are 12cm tall and have good light and air. I think I will wait to see what happens next winter. It is summer here in New Zealand now.

[headbanger333]

Thanku for that input. I'm not a fan of rooty plants either. I'm picking they will produce flowers next winter, if not, I will just have to be patient. The place they are in gets lots of morning sun so I don't think lack of light is an issue.