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  #1  
Old 05-07-2020, 02:59 PM
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DirtyCoconuts DirtyCoconuts is offline
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Warm and Hot Cymbidiums - a reference
Default Warm and Hot Cymbidiums - a reference

I am only parroting this (almost pirating, lol but i include the citation) i had no part in the creation or research of this information but it is VERY informative for folks like me who want to consider cyms in their life.

the full text is below the link

Warm loving cymbidiums

Warm loving cymbidiums
Most cymbidiums that are in cultivation require a distinct 20-25 degree difference in the day and night temperature, with the night temperature below 57 at night during the bloom cycle. Additional parameters are below the mid 90s during the day, and above 28 degrees at all times. Many of us live where these parameters just donít exist. The central to southern coast of California is ideal with the marine layer at night, and warm days.
So for those who live in southern states, Hawaii, or have heated greenhouses, or want orchids as house plants in the very northern climes, warm loving cymbidiums are perfect.
Problem is there just isnít a good definition of warm tolerance, nor can we point to exact breeding lines. Many in the cymbidium world have tried to define warm tolerance, but it is difficult. For some, it is heat tolerance, i.e. able to withstand 95 degree Bangkok weather and still flower. For others, it means a narrow difference between day and night temperatures all year long.
Many warm loving cymbidiums will bloom regardless of the difference in temperature between day and night and if the low temperatures are above 60 degrees. These are the ones we are working with. In most cases they will bloom anywhere and in some cases several times a year.
Some come from well known warm loving parents such as madidum, canaliculatum, aloifolium, dayanum, finlaysoniaum, and ensifolium. Most often the offspring will be warm loving as well. However it may depend on what these are crossed with.
Kobsukh Katraena of Pakkret Orchids in Thailand suggests the following heat factor ranking:
Heat Factor
Cym ensifolium subsp haematodes
10.0
Cym canaliculatum
10.0
Cym aloifolium
10.0
Cym finlaysonianum
9.5
Cym ensifolium subsp ensifolium
8.5
Cym dayanum
8.5
Cym bicolor
8.5
Cym atropurpureum
8.5
Cym madidum
8.0
Cym munronianum
8.0
Cym chloranthum
7.0
Cym sinense
5.5
Kobsukh discovered that heat tolerant madidum crossed with cooler loving hybrids will produce offspring that are not as heat tolerant. For Kobsukh in Thailand, Pat Ann, Sunshine Falls, and Parish Madness will lose their buds. In Hawaii these same crosses are all very stable and show no loss of flowers in the warm regions. Even Super Baby ĎAutumn Kingí will drop buds in Thailand, while it is very prolific in Hawaii at most elevations.
Some species will only exhibit warm tolerance in combination with certain other hybrids. And contrary to what one might think, it is often combinations with hybrids that are cool loving, particularly if they are tolerant of high and low extremes. Parishii (sanderae), while not on this list, often produces warm tolerance in combination with other hybrids, as does floribundum. Pearl Sachiko is Olymilum (floribundum x Olympus) x erythrostylum, yet it blooms well here on the Big Island in warm regions, possibly from the floribundum influence. The same can be found with Sarah Jean 'Ice Cascades' (floribundum x Sleeping Beauty) which blooms easily in Hawaii.
The possibility exists that some of these species have different races that are warm tolerant within the species. Parishii (sanderae), insigne, floribundum and devonianum may in fact have cool weather and warm weather races within the species which may partially account for the variability with different crosses warm tolerance.
Another possibility in creating tolerance in hybrids may be in having ancestors that are ensifolium AND floribundum together for example.
Other combinations may create larger flowers and longer life. Toward this end the breeding work continues.
We invite you to send us what you have found that works for you in your region, and the conditions that you have. With your input, we will continue to seek varieties that will work for the largest number of people living in warm conditions. With global warming, this in fact may be an increasing segment of the population.
Aloha,
Bob Harris
Jennifer Snyder
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:17 PM
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Interesting article! And that's a good list of the warmer-growing species that lead to Cyms that aren't so picky about the temperature drop. I'd add one more, Cym. suave - it hasn't been used a lot in hybridizing in the past but I think that it is showing up more.

The Cyms that I have that I identify as "non-picky" (I HATE the term "warmth tolerant", essentially all Cyms can handle heat, its "warm muggy nights tolerant" that counts) are those that bloom early in the season (like October or before, so they have definitely not had a cool-down)
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:30 PM
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thanks!

i was thinking of it as a decent tool if someone comes across a hybrid and wanted to look for one of these in the lineage
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Old 05-07-2020, 04:56 PM
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Perfect timing on this! My next judging HW is on heat tolerant Cyms!
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Old 05-07-2020, 05:30 PM
Keysguy Keysguy is offline
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Good article but I'm always curious why call them "heat or warm tolerant"?

There are Cyms that grow naturally in warm - hot environments. Sometimes trying to force things to grow where they don't want to be can just end up as a head banging experience.

I think you will find that the Cyms typically grown in temperate regions of the world were originally collected from the families of plants that grew in higher elevations where there are distinct seasons temp wise and rainfall wise. Think China, India, temperate Asia. Because they were so easy to grow elsewhere with like environments, they were heavily hybridized and eventually became "the standard". If these plants don't get that chill (often near freezing) for several consecutive nights by mid November at the latest, then they are just not going to set bud that season. They grow just fine in warm, humid conditions, they just won't bloom!

There was a gentleman in the Homestead, FL area years ago (sorry I'm spacing his name at the moment but I believe his business was called "Everglades Orchids") who pretty much spent his entire adult life trying to make what he called "warm tolerant" cymbidiums by crossing the good ole standards I mentioned above to the warm-hot growing species. A lifetime.......and he met with VERY limited success. Most of the "warm tolerant" cyms you find in the market today are a result of his work but they are few and far between and I have a few and can tell you from experience that here in Key West they bloom maybe 1 out of 5 years.

So, I guess my point is, after all these years I've finally got my brain wrapped around the notion that I better grow plants that like to be where I am because I'm not throwing away all my food every fall to put the cymbidiums in the refrigerator!

So now I grow warm-hot growing Cyms and they're great and I'm not blowing bench space on big plants that may bloom only every fifth year! But then there are these new heat tolerant Zygo's.......

BTW-- my pal Jay Pfahl's Internet Orchid Species Photo Encyclopedia is a fabulous resource. Take a spin through the Cymbidium section and you'll see temp requirements, blooming season, etc. right there in an easy to understand key right next to each plants name. Really makes it super easy, and fun I think, to puruse and sort through what species of every genus might work well for your conditions.
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Old 05-07-2020, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keysguy View Post
Good article but I'm always curious why call them "heat or warm tolerant"?
The standard Cymbidium hybrids do need a cool-down in the fall, when days are still warm but nights are chilly, to bloom. (They'll grow without it, but most people want flowers) That's why I think the distinction should be "warm muggy nights tolerant" - the hybrids (and species) that don't need a fall chill to bloom. I have never met a Cymbidium (except for a few of the higher-elevation Asian species) that can't tolerate as much heat as they're likely to get in the human-habitable zone... my first orchid was a Cym that came from a co-worker who lived in an inland area that gets triple-digit F temperatures routinely. She grew her Cyms under a big deciduous tree - shade in summer, good light in winter. So essentially all Cyms are fine with heat, but many DO require a cool period to bloom.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keysguy View Post
But then there are these new heat tolerant Zygo's.......

BTW-- my pal Jay Pfahl's Internet Orchid Species Photo Encyclopedia is a fabulous resource. Take a spin through the Cymbidium section and you'll see temp requirements, blooming season, etc. right there in an easy to understand key right next to each plants name. Really makes it super easy, and fun I think, to puruse and sort through what species of every genus might work well for your conditions.
Dude! these two Zygos grow like WEEDS!!!!

Zygo spikes by J Solo, on Flickr


Zygo spikes by J Solo, on Flickr


Zygo spikes by J Solo, on Flickr
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:44 PM
JScott JScott is offline
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I experimented with some warmth tolerant hybrids from Odom's a few years back. They were unflowered seedlings from his own crosses. I had three of them, and they never bloomed. I tried growing them like my Catts, and no blooms. I gave them more light than the Catts, and still no blooms. I left them outside longer in the fall so that they could experience at least a little chill, and still no blooms (mind you that I had experimented with standard Cymbidiums before, and I could get them to start to spike in the fall, but then it got too cold outside and I had to bring them in, and I didn't have a cool enough place to keep them, and the buds would blast). By this time the plants are several years old and all of them were filling up three gallon pots. They grew LIKE CRAZY, they were putting on like six and eight new growths per growth cycle, but not one of them ever bloomed. Finally one year, I left them outside too long and we had a bit of a freeze, and it damaged a lot of the leaves. The plants would have survived, but they were unsightly (up to this point, at least they had been attractive foliage plants), and they took up so much space, and I was frustrated because I had tried so many different things with them, so I just discarded them.

I now have a young Cym. Milton Carpenter 'Everglades Gold'. I bought it as a tiny thing just out of the flask, and it has several growths now, each getting bigger than the last. The most recent one has leaves about 18 inches tall or so, and has a new growth starting, so I'm hoping within the next two or three growths it might be big enough to bloom. I'll give it much longer than that if I need to, but if it makes it to a three gallon pot and I still haven't seen any blooms, I'll compost it. If I can't get Milton Carpenter to bloom, I'm giving up on Cymbidiums.
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:10 PM
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JScott -
Just looked up Cym Milton Carpenter... one parent is Cym. Golden Elf... so odds are good that it will work for you... likely bloom time, I suspect, will be late summer/early fall. If you can get your hands on it, also consider Cym Chen's Ruby, which also has Golden Elf as one parent...I have that one, and it blooms around September/October, so clearly doesn't need the cool-down. Fragrant too. (Golden Elf itself can bloom for me as early as August)
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:26 PM
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Mary Mancini in Louisiana came and spoke to us a few years ago about the warm growing Cyms she grows. I think if she can bloom them in LA, they can take any heat we throw at them!
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