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  #11  
Old 08-16-2022, 02:50 PM
nhbeek nhbeek is offline
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i wasn't gonna chime in cause i've used peroxide a total of once and have no skin in that game, other than we don't use it. but, i am really curious as to the push against soap, specifically. not sure why i am getting up on my soapbox about it either (see what i did there??)

but really, have all the people who are rallying around harsher chemicals actually tried the soap regime?? i am just curious. at least on a very limited scale and for specific, "easy" pests like mites or snails, etc.??? i am NOT trying to start a wierd, new age internet war.

it's also intersting to note how frequently this has been coming up (perhaps it's due to summer in the northern hemi, dunno). i'll take my question to a new, definitive soap thread and perhaps put my own curiousity to rest on the matter.... i look forward to meeting you anti-soapers on the slippery slope of pseudo-scientific knowledge surfactance
In my experience non-systemic insecticides such as soap are not sufficient to eradicate pests such as scales, mealies, and orchid snails.

In addition neem, alcohol, and soap do damage to the plants' leaves. How much damage depends on the plant, temperature etc. Because you never eliminate the pests, the continued application of such "remedies" results in continuous damage to the plants.

And to what end? For a couple bucks of imidacloprid, etc, you can completely destroy all of the pests. Furthermore if a pesticide is safe enough to be used on my salad greens, I am fine with using it with proper PPE on my orchids.

I do see value in organic practices for food production - I grow my vegetables and fruits organically, however for orchids it really doesn't make a lot of sense. The amount of chemicals used are miniscule and we aren't eating them.

Last edited by nhbeek; 08-16-2022 at 03:01 PM..
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2022, 05:29 PM
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Lots of good discussion in this thread!
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2022, 06:45 PM
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The reason that imidacloprid is being phased out (and is illegal or at least unobtainable in a lot of places) is that it is devastating to honyebees and other beneficial insects. My feeling on the subject... spraying it broadly is a bad idea, but if applied "surgically" to orchids that have an insect issue, probably not going to hurt the bees, which are not particularly attracted to the orchids. (I have had a few bees commit suicide by squeezing into flowers that they couldn't get out of, such as L. anceps, but that's not due to pesticides, more of a "Darwin award") Even with real pesticides, though, it's important to apply several times, at around 5 days to 1 week intervals, to get successive generations. And even better, to rotate more than one type. There are areas where imidacloprid has been heavily used (such as on lawns), and has ceased to be effective because of developed resistance. You never kill 100% in one pass, there's always a few strong ones that survive and need to be nailed in subsequent treatments.
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2022, 06:53 PM
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The reason that imidacloprid is being phased out (and is illegal or at least unobtainable in a lot of places) is that it is devastating to honyebees and other beneficial insects. My feeling on the subject... spraying it broadly is a bad idea, but if applied "surgically" to orchids that have an insect issue, probably not going to hurt the bees, which are not particularly attracted to the orchids. (I have had a few bees commit suicide by squeezing into flowers that they couldn't get out of, such as L. anceps, but that's not due to pesticides, more of a "Darwin award") Even with real pesticides, though, it's important to apply several times, at around 5 days to 1 week intervals, to get successive generations. And even better, to rotate more than one type. There are areas where imidacloprid has been heavily used (such as on lawns), and has ceased to be effective because of developed resistance. You never kill 100% in one pass, there's always a few strong ones that survive and need to be nailed in subsequent treatments.
Exactly!
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Old 08-17-2022, 08:57 AM
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In a greenhouse, unless excessive treatment contaminates the soil or groundwater, I think pesticides can be fairly well contained. It was broad, outdoor applications that were the issue with imidacloprid.

Rotating pesticides during a treatment is not the preferred methodology. Instead, one should do a thorough, complete regimen with one - wetting all plant surfaces and drenching the media, doing so 3 times at 1-week intervals. If you see the return of the pest, then you switch to an pesticide having a different MOA, repeating the full regimen with that.
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  #16  
Old 08-17-2022, 03:00 PM
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yo, sorry isarus....i totally didn't mean to jack this thread, which is why i started a serarate thread for soap in the hopes that the specific discussion of hydrogen peroxide would continue.

so, as a gental request, may we continue with the h2o2 stuff...it was just getting interesting!

plus, i think we can all agree that soap is at least, if not MORE effective, than hydrogen peroxide in treating pests.

hehehehehe, i have now cleansed myself in the sudsy lather of contentment that i have done all i can to not derail this thread
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Old 08-17-2022, 03:25 PM
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yo, sorry isarus....i totally didn't mean to jack this thread, which is why i started a serarate thread for soap in the hopes that the specific discussion of hydrogen peroxide would continue.

so, as a gental request, may we continue with the h2o2 stuff...it was just getting interesting!

plus, i think we can all agree that soap is at least, if not MORE effective, than hydrogen peroxide in treating pests.

hehehehehe, i have now cleansed myself in the sudsy lather of contentment that i have done all i can to not derail this thread
Ha! No worries! I'm actually surprised more folks haven't "pushed back" by decrying the positive effects of hydrogen peroxide, considering the love for it online.
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  #18  
Old 08-18-2022, 12:10 AM
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perhaps this love is more perception than reality. even the reddit tide is changing there...at least i see more posts against peroxide lately it seems
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Old 08-18-2022, 12:14 AM
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perhaps this love is more perception than reality. even the reddit tide is changing there...at least i see more posts against peroxide lately it seems
What's your reddit username? I'm on there daily (as you've no doubt noticed).
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  #20  
Old 08-18-2022, 12:25 AM
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What's your reddit username? I'm on there daily (as you've no doubt noticed).
Speaking of soapboxes...

I am from a younger, "reddit generation" and I hate it. I spent countless hours there in the past and a couple months ago blocked it on all my devices and don't miss it at all. The idea of having posts decay with time is antithesis for continuing discussion and building knowledge as a group, and I so dislike how reddit is becoming the de facto replacement for good forums like this.
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