Possible Terminal Spike on Mini Phal

[sewcrazy64]

I’ve never had a terminal spike but I’m afraid that’s what has happened to my 10 year old mini phal. It has always been a weak grower but since this spike faded, it has looked even worse.

Maybe I’m just being hopeful but to me it looks like the spike came up through the leaf on the left. If so, could a new leaf possibly grow from the leaf on the right? I would appreciate your thoughts.

A lower res picture is attached. See full res picture HERE



Thanks!
Dana

[Roberta]

The term "terminal spike" isn't as horrid as it sounds. It doesn't mean that the plant is dying... just that this is the last spike that a given growth will produce. (It is at the "terminal spot" on the plant, like coming out of the crown, not "terminal as in fatal". After that, the plant is very likely to produce additional growths at the base. Those aren't "keikis" as in plants that will develop into independent plants that sometimes occur on flower spikes, but rather new growths that share the same root system. If there's more than one, it may produce a clump - some Phalaenopsis species tend to do that, and pass the tendency on to their progeny. So of you see new growths developing at the base of the Phal, don't try to remove them... that's likely to kill both the mother plant and the new one. If you get a clump that's good - you'll get an even better display of flowers.

However, that spike doesn't even look like it is coming from the crown,rather from a leaf just below it. So just observe the plant, and see what it does.

[sewcrazy64]

Thank you, Roberta. That’s very encouraging. I think I see the beginnings of three new roots so hopefully it will grow a new leaf soon as well.

[Shadeflower]

It's hanging on by a thread.
It's been caused by longterm lack of fertilization. It should have lots of leaves after 10 years but it looks like it's been losing more than its been gaining in that time.
The leaves are floppy and yellowing with touches of red.

A red flower spike as yours has is also as I have discovered a red flag.

Some will say it could be a variety of reasons and fertilizing is the least important so will dismiss my notion. That is for everyone to decide themselves. I am no expert on the matter but there are subtle signs to look for I now know and yours is displaying 3 of them.

The important things to ask when trying to revive this one is:

what is the NPK ratio of the fertilizer. what percent are the micro nutrients?

Ok so that might be an overly complicated question but it comes based on my recent research that the Iron content should be no less than 1/40th of the N content. Ideally a ratio is 20:1 is desirable.

Now the only reason I know this or why I am suggesting that tidbit is because I have been doing lots of research based on my own suspected deficiencies.

So in practical terms if you have a 20-20-20 fertilizer it should contain 1% Iron and all other micronutrients like zinc, boron, manganese and copper in slightly lower concentrations.

I have been comparing fertilizers and the good ones have a good ratio of micronutrients, then there are lots that have far too little.

There are lots that are like 20-20-20 with just 0.1% iron.

When it comes to fertilizing orchids it is hard to find out what amount is good but I have found a grower who has used up to 8ppm Iron to water his. So anywhere between 0.1 and 8 ppm Iron is what to aim for.

Ok far too technical probably, my point is this one needs a good orchid fertilizer

any on this list should be good - I'd personaly recommend the jack's classic as my choice out of these:
10 Best Orchid Fertilizer Reviews 2021 [Top Picks & Guide]

The ph should be in the region of 5.5 to 6.5 otherwise nutrients can't be absorbed well.

I personally think this one is too far gone and all my advice would be for nothing anyway but I still try with mine.

I'd give it an extremely weak dose making sure to use a good fertilizer so that there are still enough micronutrients in such a weak dose.

I have yet to find a good orchid fertilizer I'd be happy with based on the research I know about. It just doesn't exist imo but the jack's should be as good as you can get.

Even with optimal care the plant has hardly got any chlorophyl (greenness) in the leaves so photosynthesis and thus the production of energy is going to be very limited on this orchid which is why I put the chances at very low. Without energy no amount of nutrients can save it and some would even suggest never to feed a weak orchid... but that is what will have gotten it into this situation and without remedying it it won't green up by itself.

[Roberta]

I have never gotten this technical with any of my orchids. (I fertilize very lightly, and if I am especially neglectful, as I was due to some physical issues, it takes a year or more to show in somewhat less growth but no serious problems were evident. They still grow and bloom, have responded nicely to modest fertilizing with better growth). Think of fertilizer as "vitamins" not "food". The fine points are likely important to the commercial growers who need to have thousands of perfect plants ready to sell at a particular time. For a hobbyist it is more like "Yes, orchids need some small amount of fertilizer, precisely which one makes very little difference."

The red pigment in the leaves is likely just "sun tan" from light that is on the high side of what the plant wants, especially if the flower was dark - the anthocyanin pigment tends to be expressed in the leaves also. The split leaf could have been old mechanical damage, or possibly it got a bit too dry. The red in the old spike is again likely to just be red pigment from a dark flower, visible now that the old spike is pretty much dead and has lost the green pigment... sort of like what one sees in autumn leaves, the red becomes more visible as the chlorophyll fades. If new roots and a new leaf are starting, it is on track to continue to survive fine. So frankly, I don't see the severe issues that Shadeflower is seeing.

I looked up the cross... Phal I-Hsin Symphony, found photos. The color is a very saturated pink-purple. So that would indeed explain the pigmentation in the leaves and old spike.

[Shadeflower]

Roberta I do spend far too much time trying to work out what is optimal especially when the orchids are so slow to respond you are already on to the next theory before you see results lol.

But this orchid should have more than 2 leaves. It is true that so many factors can affect nutrient uptake by a plant and most often a deficiency in something is not even caused by a deficiency of that nutrient!
Like too cold temperatures can affect uptake, too little root air circulation and too wet media. Feeding too much of one thing can limit other nutrients and make them get locked out. If one is lucky to have a ph in the right range one will never see problems of have to worry about it but if one hasn't then over time orchids will start dying. So it is imporant to rule everything else out first. Even watering too little will result in giving too little nutrients.

I only had one orchid die this year and that was one I pretty much killed by snapping off the growth tip.

That is the point of this question. Not to discuss our differing opinions which are both valid.

I'm just saying if you do want more orchids especially the smaller more sensitive ones which this would include as one of its parents would have to be a mini phal to survive and have better chances then spending a bit more time on what they benefit from helps.

The thing is there is so much misinformation you can spend days researching and still not have learnt a single thing! It can get frustrating.

So the important thing is to just have a balanced fertilizer (which contains enough of all N,P and K, including a high amount of micronutrients compared to the macros) Ca and Mg help the absorbtion of all other nutrients so are seen as magical boosters for orchids but nothing should ever be overdone. The amount of times I see growers saying they heard to add X to their plants so what do they do they stop feeding a regular balanced fertilzier and give them a mega boost of Calmag. That will do as much harm than good. So everything needs to stay in balance and in moderation...

Feeding is either a strong dose of 160ppm N (giving a TDS of approx 800ppm with any balanced fertilizer) once a month

Feeding with a medium rate 0f 80ppm N (TDS of 400ppm)
every 2 weeks

Feeding with a low dose of 40ppm N (TDS of 200ppm) once a week

feeding with a weak dose of 10-30ppm N (TDS 50-150)
in hydroponic media with continuous access to a reservoir or for spraying mounted orchids on a daily basis.

I think mounted orchids are the most challenging and the reason will partly have something to do with watering and the orchid receiving the right amount of all it needs.

When you decide to build a house you will need a large amount of bricks, less windows and only a couple of doors. So you might think doors are not important, you need only 1 or 2 compared to the thousands of bricks (micro vs macronutrients) so its not the end of the world to leave out 1 or 2 doors but what happens is a) the house won't be fully built and b) vandals will come and graffitti your house.

In orchid terms this results in less leaves and pests coming to have a nibble. Ok attributing pests to lack of nutrietion is what got me offended not too long ago but I since think there could possibly be some merit to it.

We've all heard calcium strengthens cell walls and gives the plants increases pest resistance. Well maybe it does. Who knows.

One recent article I read mentions that calcium can be fed at much higher concentration than all other macro nutrients up to 500ppm before problems occur compared to like N or K where the maximum is 200ppm before problems occur or 100ppm for phosphorous.

I just hope my interest in the matter and my belief it does make a difference helps. I'm still a novice grower on the whole and I will be testing different fertilizers in more detail in future but I already know I have lost orchids in the past due to deficiencies.

Now the big question I cannot answer is if it was because of a lack of roots that they could not absorb enough no matter what I did or whether they could have benefitted from my increased learning since we will never know.

This one is 10 years old though so not just a recent orchid that has lost all its roots, otherwise I would not go into so much detail as there are too many other reasons that are more likely like bad roots or pests that can also weaken orchids to the point of dying.

I might have overexaggerated my initial observations and I didn't mean that in a bad way, I have similar orchids I am trying to revive. The mini's when they become weak it is far harder than with the bigger phals..

[Roberta]

A challenge with Phals, especially the mass-produced ones, is that they are likely to be weak plants when they first come in your door, because they have been pushed. 2 years from seed to flask to bloom is very common in the Phalaenopsis industry. The plants put their all into that first bloom... if you can then nurture them to continue to live and bloom it's a triumph. Minis aren't necessarily any more fragile than any others - Phal. equestris (in the background nearly all of the ones with branched spikes and lots of flowers) is a robust little species, a delight to grow.

Mounted plants are indeed a challenge to manage for indoor growing unless one has a grow tent or terrarium to keep the humidity up, and a way to deal with frequent watering and keep the water off the floor. I grow lots of mounted plants, but they are either outside or (or to a lesser extent) in a greenhouse, either way watering is on an automatic system and there's no problem with making a mess. My mounted plants (along with everything else) get a bath with fertilizer solution every couple of weeks or so. (roughly 100 ppm N) Or less. And they don't seem to suffer. An easy orchid is one whose needs you can meet without a lot of trouble/expense, a difficult one is an orchid where you have to work hard to accomplish that. What fits into each category will be very different for different people.

[Orchid Whisperer]

SF, I think it is highly unlikely that you can evaluate someone's orchid cultural habits, and chances of future success, from one photograph.

Please dial back the negative / unhelpful comments.

[sewcrazy64]

Thank you all for your helpful responses. Here’s more information that addresses points discussed. Indeed my orchids did lack fertilizing (and care except for watering) for about a year as I was unable to care for them. About 3 months ago I was able to slowly begin repotting and found many had lost roots due to decaying bark. Since repotting I’m seeing some additional root loss. I assume it’s because the roots grew accustomed to being wet in the old bark and couldn’t adjust to better aeration in fresh bark. Most are beginning to send out new roots though.

I fertilize with a very weak solution every time I water. I’ve always used Better-Gro Orchid Plus and now I’m adding a little Superthrive to help them recover. Also, I have begun diluting our hard well water with rainwater hoping to help the roots better absorb nutrients.

Even before this neglect, this mini phal was a weak grower having only 3-4 pale green leaves at most and only one spike with 2-3 blooms each summer. I always babied it hoping it would have more healthy looking leaves and more spikes. I eventually assumed the issue was genetics since my other orchids did very well with my culture. The dried spike you see was from this summer when it had 3 blooms. The roots aren’t as bright green as they were when I repotted it 2 months ago. I hope the tiny nubs on the stem are new roots forming which I will take as a sign of hope. Today I noticed some greening of the stem at the bases of the leaves which I hope indicates some growth. I’m definitely not giving up on it yet.

Again I appreciate everyone’s input.
Dana

[estación seca]

Glad you have more time to care for your plants.

It's just one photo, but it looks to me as though it might be getting more light than it needs. How close is it to a window? I've seen plants here look like that when they got more than ideal light. I've been told by commercial growers that hybrid Phals flower better with less light as opposed to more.