Which parent creates this in Cattleya hybrids?

[BrassavolaStars]

Hello all,

I had a question about color traits in Cattleya hybrids.
In some hybrids, I have noticed that there is a light pink picotee on the flower. I have posted examples below.

What parent passes this trait down? My hypothesis is that it is the Rhyncholaelia digbyana or glauca as I only seem to see it on RL hybrids. Maybe pink edges are for Rhyncholaelias like lip spots are for Brassavola nodosa?

That said, many of them also have dowiana and intermedia in them too.

Disclaimer: None of the photos are mine.




Disclaimer

[Roberta]

Rl. digbyana is the primary source for the "frills" I see C. dowiana in the third, fourth, and fifth pictures. Without knowing names, can't be sure of anything, though... these are all likely rather complex hybrids. (That's the hybridizer's art... start with parents with desired characteristics, and a few years down the line start selecting seedlings, and then bloom them out and again select for the desired characteristics. all of the progeny won't be great) For Catts this can be a 5 to 7 year process. And likely, repeat for some more generations. This is a very labor-intensive process that can take many years. Lip spots on B. nodosa? Not on any of mine... B. nodosa hybrids yes but that's not characteristic of the species though maybe a few may have them.

[BrassavolaStars]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Rl. digbyana is the primary source for the "frills" I see C. dowiana in the third, fourth, and fifth pictures. Without knowing names, can't be sure of anything, though... these are all likely rather complex hybrids. (That's the hybridizer's art... start with parents with desired characteristics, and a few years down the line start selecting seedlings, and then bloom them out and again select for the desired characteristics. all of the progeny won't be great) For Catts this can be a 5 to 7 year process. And likely, repeat for some more generations. This is a very labor-intensive process that can take many years. Lip spots on B. nodosa? Not on any of mine... B. nodosa hybrids yes but that's not characteristic of the species though maybe a few may have them.

I am sorry as I forgot to put the names.

In order:
Rlc. Cordelia, Rl Aristocrat x digbyana (I don't believe this one), Rlc. Sedona's Green Ruffles, and the last two are of Rlc. Mrs. J. Leeman.

I was wondering what causes that pink at the edges of the sepals, petals, and lip. Is it digbyana in the same way that nodosa offspring have spotted lips? A good portion of close digbyana offspring seem to have this faded picotee. I was curious whether it was the digbyana's work or something else.

[Afid]

I am inclined to say it is from digbeyana, but that is based on more of a "gut feeling" than any research or actual knowledge and therefor has a high probability if being completely wrong.

[Roberta]

Names help...
Rlc. Cordelia = Rl digbyana x C intermedia. Looks to me like C intermedia is rather dominant. I would not be surprised if C. intermedia f. aquinii (the peloric form) was involved. (Note the splash of pink on the tips of the petals.

Rl Aristocrat (glauca x digbyana) x digbyana? I agree, not likely. I'd expect something that mostly looked like digbyana. Actually, I'd say "No way!" There are a whole lot of photos of Rl Aristocrat in Orchidwiz, and they all look like you'd expect... cream-colored flowers with a lip that is frilly but not fringy (the glauca takes out the fringes)

Rlc. Sedona's Green Ruffles - a complex hybrid on one side, Rl digbyana on the other (This is Rl digbyana x Rlc Williette Wong), there's about 60% C. dowiana in Williette Wong, but a whole bunch of generations to get back to the species on that side. so it is mostly Rl. digbyana x C. dowiana with significant bits of other things.

Rlc. Mrs. j. Leemann = Rl digbyana x C. dowiana
This one is pretty straightforward... The picotee in the lip comes from the C. dowiana, the color is softened by the Rl. digbyana, and both contribute to the lip shape - dowiana somewhat dominates since the lip is more ruffles than hairs.

Hey, this is fun...So you have two primary hybrids with Rl. digbyana as one parent, a complex hybrid, and one "Not what it says it is so we don't have a clue"

[BrassavolaStars]

I am doing some more research. I found this Rlc. Helen which is digbyana x tenebrosa.

Also I found a few pinkish digbyana and very pink glaucas.

Maybe it happens naturally and the dowiana turbo charges it?

Repeat disclaimer that these are not my photos

[BrassavolaStars]

Originally Posted by BrassavolaStars

I am doing some more research. I found this Rlc. Helen which is digbyana x tenebrosa.

Also I found a few pinkish digbyana and very pink glaucas.

Maybe it happens naturally and the dowiana turbo charges it?

Repeat disclaimer that these are not my photos

Also, now that I have seen one. I MUST have a pink digbyana.

[Roberta]

Your #2 still doesn't look even close to what it is supposed to be. The shape of the lip, the red lines in the throat, the yellow on the lipI still think it is mis-labeled. I don't know what it is, but don't see any way that it could be (glauca x digbyana) x digbyana. Not just the color but the form makes it highly unlikely.

[BrassavolaStars]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Your #2 still doesn't look even close to what it is supposed to be. The shape of the lip, the red lines in the throat, the yellow on the lip I still think it is mis-labeled. I don't know what it is, but don't see any way that it could be (glauca x digbyana) x digbyana. Not just the color but the form makes it highly unlikely.

I definitely agree with that. I think it is probably a photo of a very complex hybrid that the vendor accidently put on the wrong description. The others seem to check out though.

What I did learn for sure from my "research" (really wish shopping) is that there are color forms of digbyana I did not even know existed. There is even a digbyana with frilly petals.

---------- Post added at 12:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

I would definitely strike that "Aristocrat" hybrid from the record as well though.

[estación seca]

I suggest you look up the Chadwick Cattleya articles. They are in the printed book, and if you use the search function on various Cattleya alliance species you may find articles on that species. They often talk about how the species affects progeny.