divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
  #11  
Old 09-11-2021, 06:19 AM
K-Sci's Avatar
K-Sci K-Sci is offline
Senior Member
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
 

Join Date: Sep 2020
Zone: 8a
Location: Central Mississippi
Posts: 393
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt Male
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadeflower View Post
I thought about this one and I was thinking what could be the reason... Then it hit me.... The plant was being cared for by someone else who really did not want to repot it and thus gave it away instead.

So what happened to those roots? Most likely removed by the previous grower!

we all know beginners love to snip off things and hate "unsightly" aerial roots. Maybe they thought snipping off the roots would stop it growing out of the pot and when that didn't stop it away it went?
Hi Shadeflower,

I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing that there seem to be a lot of missing roots. There should be roots all over the outside of that pot. The OP, L.G., would seem to have two problems.

First, the new growths hang over the side of the pot so much that it will be hard to pot this plant up without removing the newest forward bulbs or burying them deep in the media and using a very big pot.

Second, and I would like to see this confirmed by L.G., the newer growths behind the new rooting leads appear to have had their roots trimmed off. If so, dividing the plant may be a much bigger setback than for a normal plant. the only bulbs with roots supporting the plant's health are the older back-bulbs.

I think you probably see the problems this presents. I haven't yet decided what the best course of action is. I'm tempted to say that the first three bulbs for each of the leads be removed and potted as divisions in need of rooting. The older part of the plant could then be potted up to a larger pot. Removing the new leads would cause it to branch. The main part of the plant would then be set to become a nice big specimen with many flowering leads.

I'm glad to see that you are online right now, so hopefully you or someone else can offer a second opinion on this.

-Keith
__________________
---------------------------------------------
The harder you work, the luckier you get.

Last edited by K-Sci; 09-11-2021 at 06:32 AM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes Shadeflower liked this post
  #12  
Old 09-11-2021, 04:30 PM
lobotomizedgoat's Avatar
lobotomizedgoat lobotomizedgoat is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2021
Zone: 10b
Location: Coastal Southwest
Posts: 24
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Sci View Post
Second, and I would like to see this confirmed by L.G., the newer growths behind the new rooting leads appear to have had their roots trimmed off.
The middle growth does appear to have some that were trimmed in a couple spots. (The out-of-focus one in the glare on the left was the one I discovered/damaged the other day when I removed the dry sheath covering it).



On the far-side growth I can only see the remains of a single root. I can't say whether it was exposed or not until now. The area was covered in dry sheath that I removed the other day when checking it, but I did not notice the old root until now (it's a bit difficult to inspect in its usual home by the window)



Am I correct to assume that these areas are unlikely to regrow roots on their own?
Attached Thumbnails
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt-bulb-bottom-jpg   divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt-mid-bulb-bottom2-jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-11-2021, 07:01 PM
K-Sci's Avatar
K-Sci K-Sci is offline
Senior Member
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
 

Join Date: Sep 2020
Zone: 8a
Location: Central Mississippi
Posts: 393
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt Male
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobotomizedgoat View Post
The middle growth does appear to have some that were trimmed in a couple spots...

Am I correct to assume that these areas are unlikely to regrow roots on their own?
In my experience growths behind the leads will grow a root here and there, but older back-bulbs do so rarely. I've said this before on the forum, and seen some disagreement, so maybe they grow roots more often than I think. Here's what I suggest.

Your plant is past the best time to repot. Based on the small number of severed roots on the back-bulbs, this plant doesn't grow a large number of roots from each lead when new roots are damaged. Some plants put out a lot of roots, and still more if the first ones out are damaged. The leads with roots removed may grow a root or two, but they are and will remain root-poor, drawing from back-bulbs and the leads.

The growth hanging over the edge of the pot will make potting up to a larger pot difficult or impossible. The options below assume potting up without removing at least one lead isn't a practical option.

Option 1: Do nothing. The goal here is to repot at the optimal time, which is shortly before or just as new roots emerge from new growths. New growths might emerge reasonably soon, or they may not start until spring.

This option maximizes the number of flower in the next flowering season, but there will be a lot of roots outside the pot, and the back-bulbs will have provide most of the water and nutrients.

Option 2: Pot up removing the two leads with severed roots. Remove three bulbs from each of the two growths that are hanging outside the pot. Move the remaining plant to a larger pot removing only the lose media, then back-fill around the old media.

This approach maximizes rhizome forking to increase the number of flowering leads so you'll have a big beautiful specimen sized plant by this time next year. From the photos, the plant appears to have 1-2 additional leads, from which it could flower this year if it is fall/winter flowering. If it spring flowering, it will flower from multiple new growths next year.

Option 3: Same as Option 2 removing only one lead. Only removing the one lead that hangs way down and would interfere with moving the plant to a larger pot.

If the plant is fall/winter flowering you would get more flowers this year, but the plant may fork less, so you'll have fewer next spring if this is a spring flowering plant.

I like Option 2, but the option you prefer is a matter of your preferences.

Okay, now what to do with the cut lead divisions. You can toss them, give them away, or try to root them. The rear 2 bulbs of the divisions had the roots severed, so the divisions will be weak. There are many ways to root new divisions. The following is only what I would do (as you can see from my photo).

I pot new lead divisions in sphagnum in a pot just big enough to fit them. The sphagnum is packed tightly enough that it squeezes the rhizomes and roots sufficiently to keep the plant in the pot, though a stake is sometime still needed. I like this approach because sphagnum keeps more moisture at the roots than other media while preventing root rot, though the roots will be damaged during the repotting process.

-Keith
Attached Thumbnails
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt-delete-jpg  
__________________
---------------------------------------------
The harder you work, the luckier you get.

Last edited by K-Sci; 09-11-2021 at 08:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-11-2021, 08:18 PM
lobotomizedgoat's Avatar
lobotomizedgoat lobotomizedgoat is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2021
Zone: 10b
Location: Coastal Southwest
Posts: 24
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Sci View Post
The growth hanging over the edge of the pot will make potting up to a larger pot difficult or impossible. The options below assume potting up without removing at least one lead isn't practical...

Thank you for the advice, Keith!

I was starting to hope that I could get away with plopping it into a large basket but it sounds like that would likely end in broken roots. My risk-averse side likes option 3, but option 2 does sound like the best for long term. I'm curious what you think the odd are of the rootless leads developing roots with the sphagnum method.

I did find a 16" basket at a local store that will work for my space, so in any case the bulk of the plant will be going into it. I'm also curious if anyone has media advice. I see medium bark recommended a lot for catts, but it's in small bark at the moment so perhaps I should stick with that?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-11-2021, 10:31 PM
K-Sci's Avatar
K-Sci K-Sci is offline
Senior Member
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
 

Join Date: Sep 2020
Zone: 8a
Location: Central Mississippi
Posts: 393
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt Male
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobotomizedgoat View Post
Thank you for the advice, Keith!

I was starting to hope that I could get away with plopping it into a large basket but it sounds like that would likely end in broken roots.
My concern isn't breaking roots, but that you can't put it in a basket without removing at least the growth going down the side of the pot. If you think you can do it, then it may be a better option than anything I've suggested, even if a few roots get broken.
Quote:

My risk-averse side likes option 3, but option 2 does sound like the best for long term. I'm curious what you think the odd are of the rootless leads developing roots with the sphagnum method.
The odds of survival are quite good because the lead bulbs are rooting. A better question is how long it will take for the growths to once again reach flowering size. Under ideal conditions, a 3-4 growth lead division can flower in the next season, but I would expect these bulbs to take 2-3 years due to the lack of roots behind the lead.

Because I wasn't sure you wanted to have multiple plants, If glossed over how to rooting There are some tricks you can use to make the transition of a division to a separate pot more gentle. One is to remove the outer pot, then put (tape?/ glue?) a small pot to the side of the inner pot enclosing the roots of the lead, then gently fill the pot with a relatively fine media and wait for it to root. When it is rooted, sever the rhizome. There are a lot of possible variations for this approach, such as using a ball of sphagnum, or putting a mount up against the division and growing it onto the mount.
Quote:
I did find a 16" basket at a local store that will work for my space, so in any case the bulk of the plant will be going into it.
Wow! That's a really, really huge basket, you might be able to finesse the plant into it, but I suspect that the growth that hangs down would probably have to be removed or be partially buried in the media.
Quote:
I'm also curious if anyone has media advice. I see medium bark recommended a lot for catts, but it's in small bark at the moment so perhaps I should stick with that?
There isn't any advantage I can think of to using the same media because it is the same. Also, if you ask 10 people what media you should use, you'll probably get 10 different answers.Still, there are some principles that always apply.

- use a media that won't fall out the slots in the basket.

- choose a media that fits your desired watering schedule. If you water every day, large chunk bark will work fine, but if you want to water twice per week, large bark is likely to get too dry.

- Fine bark in an old pot may already be breaking down and could rather easily become be too dense and wet for a big Catt. if more fine media is added.

- When you pot up, it is always a good to remove as much loose media as you can without damaging a lot of roots.

- Baskets dry considerably faster than pots.

-Keith
__________________
---------------------------------------------
The harder you work, the luckier you get.

Last edited by K-Sci; 09-11-2021 at 10:33 PM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes lobotomizedgoat liked this post
  #16  
Old 09-11-2021, 10:35 PM
SouthPark's Avatar
SouthPark SouthPark is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 2018
Member of:AOS
Location: Australia, North Queensland
Posts: 4,844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobotomizedgoat View Post
What would you do? Any advice is appreciated!
It probably depends on whether we see any benefit or advantage in making a back-up or not. Spreading the eggs in different baskets can be handy ----- provided that we know how to take care of divisions ----- as in appropriate care will allow the divisions to grow. And then we have a back-up.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-13-2021, 02:42 AM
lobotomizedgoat's Avatar
lobotomizedgoat lobotomizedgoat is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2021
Zone: 10b
Location: Coastal Southwest
Posts: 24
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Sci View Post
One is to remove the outer pot, then put (tape?/ glue?) a small pot to the side of the inner pot enclosing the roots of the lead, then gently fill the pot with a relatively fine media and wait for it to root. When it is rooted, sever the rhizome.
I was actually considering something like that (I've done it with a monstera). It could be a bit precarious here as the inner pot does not stand on its own and the three leading bulbs cover a 90 arc.

I plan to look at things more closely and decide tomorrow. If the geometry allows I'm now leaning toward moving the whole plant into the basket. If not I'll gauge the viability of rooting the leading growth before separating. I can just picture a small sideways pot duct taped to one side and a weight duct taped to the other for balance. I'll be sure to post pictures if the solution looks that entertaining!

Thanks again for all the assistance!

---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthPark View Post
It probably depends on whether we see any benefit or advantage in making a back-up or not. Spreading the eggs in different baskets can be handy ----- provided that we know how to take care of divisions ----- as in appropriate care will allow the divisions to grow. And then we have a back-up.
It's a struggle between my desire for a backup and my apprehension of bungling the process of making one. We'll see which wins out!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-17-2021, 09:08 PM
lobotomizedgoat's Avatar
lobotomizedgoat lobotomizedgoat is offline
Jr. Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2021
Zone: 10b
Location: Coastal Southwest
Posts: 24
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt
Default

Thanks again for the input, everyone!

I'm posting again because I dislike leaving a thread with no closure. It took some effort, finesse, and time but I managed to move the whole plant into the 16'' basket while only damaging one root tip on the new growth. Once it was out of the pot and cleaned it wasn't too difficult to align it so that none of the rhizome was buried.

Most of the old root system appeared healthy (firm) despite the medium being decayed to the point where the bottom 3rd of the pot was stinky, slimy mush after a thorough drenching. There were even a few points of active growth toward the top of the pot. All the old roots were connected the the older parts of the rhizome, with none below any of the leaved bulbs. It lost a few good roots during de-tangling but most survived. Once cleaned and trimmed the plant still weighed 4.4 lbs. I also found a single slug that had apparently been hiding in the pot for its last 3.5 months of indoor life.

There are three budding growths on the plant. Two are well contained within the new basket and one is on the farthest reaching bulb whose base is now on the basket's edge. I was tempted to remove that part of the plant but that whole section of ~8 bulbs has no roots! Once that growth matures and puts out roots I will divide that side of the plant.

I was told it's a winter bloomer but I'm not sure what to expect after repotting. Its two green sheaths appear the same so I'll be hoping for the best.

Cheers!
Attached Thumbnails
divide, repot, leave? what do do with my large catt-derp-jpg  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bulbs, growth, middle, plant, root


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do I just repot this or divide it as well? Nelly4 Dendrobium Alliance 9 10-31-2009 05:29 AM
Catt help please, must repot? Swamper Cattleya Alliance 27 11-17-2008 04:30 PM
Oncidium Twinkle...divide or repot? Rick B. Beginner Discussion 5 10-16-2008 01:29 PM
should I repot my catt??? lumpy01 Beginner Discussion 6 08-28-2008 06:11 PM
LARGE Phalenopsis - Repot or not?? suneday Beginner Discussion 8 07-21-2008 08:53 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:31 AM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.