Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus?
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Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus?
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  #1  
Old 04-14-2020, 05:21 PM
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Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus? Male
Default Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus?

Hello all,

I got this plant about two years ago at the NYBG orchid show. Since Iíve gotten the plant it has bloomed twice. This is its third time blooming.

Almost every time this plant has bloomed, the flowers have been defective in some way. The last time it bloomed, one of the sepals was malformed and the whole flower was lopsided. In spite of this, the plant can continued to bloom fairly easily and grows new bulbs very often. In the two years Iíve had it, it had grown maybe four or five bulbs with two more just starting now.

This is the first time it has had multiple flowers per spike so I was excited. Now that the flowers are open, there are even more glitchy than ever. One of the flowers has the lip fused to the right sepals and the colors are all patchy on all of the flowers. This is the first time that color changes have happened on the flowers. It is supposed to be pure white flower (petals and sepals) with a purple lip. The petals and sepals this time though have purple mottling/streaking. The problem is even more pronounced on the reverse side of the flowers.

I had always heard that color defects are almost always viruses. Does this look like it could be a virus?

The underside of three of the leaves does have some mild freckling but it is only present on the underside of those leaves. The tops of the leaves are pristine and all the other leaves, top and underside, are flawless. Additionally, Iíve never cut or divided this plant.
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Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus?-a4dff639-2fd1-4454-b9a5-5464ba51faea-jpg   Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus?-12269f56-680a-43fd-8d55-6bfbdd660374-jpg   Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus?-3f5346f9-d02b-485e-b96b-f295062e32cc-jpg  
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  #2  
Old 04-14-2020, 06:25 PM
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I'm just speculating that extra colour on a generally white coloured petal is probably not a result of a virus.

I think that if a non-white coloured petal has the well-known white pattern streaks (usually dry and crinkly in those regions) through-out ..... then that would something to be concerned about.

For the middle flower (in your photo) - get a close-up shot of the side-lobe, and also compare it with Click Here.


Last edited by SouthPark; 04-14-2020 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:36 PM
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Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus? Male
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The only way to be sure is to test it.
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassavolaStars View Post
I had always heard that color defects are almost always viruses.
I heard of colour 'breaks' related to viruses. But colour defect doesn't necessarily mean virus. That is - genetic considerations can be made too - such as born/created that way.
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:20 PM
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Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus?
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Is it a clone or a cross? Was it in bloom when you bought it? Do you use any chemicals on it? How many times has it bloomed? Can you contact the vendor and ask?

With very complex hybrids, there is always the potential for some really bad outcomes. (i.e. Burr. Nelly Isler's 'Swiss Beauty' siblings PICK OF THE WEEK / Swiss Beauty / Four types of orchids make one 'Swiss Beauty' - SFGate )

You are right, too, to be concerned that it might be a virus. Critter Creek ( Critter Creek Laboratory – Orchid Testing Lab ) does testing on orchids and it might be worthwhile to get it tested if you are concerned for the rest of your collection.

If it has bloomed a few times with deformed flowers, whether caused by virus or genetics, it is not likely to improve so you might as well discard it anyway.
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Old 04-14-2020, 08:36 PM
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Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus? Male
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I am not sure if it is a clone or not. I bought it as a NoID at the NYBG store a few years ago.

I did buy it in bloom and that was the only time the flowers werenít deformed in anyway. This is the third time I have had it in bloom. This is the first time Iíve had color changes.

I do use physan, clearyís, Bayer 3-1, and azamax on my plants. Every time it has bloomed since, it has had deformed flowers.

I donít mind if the flowers are just deformed. I am really only worried if it has something contagious that it could give to my other plants like a virus. Therefore, I have decided to isolate it.
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Old 04-14-2020, 08:58 PM
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The thing here is ------ brassavola ------ if we do enough looking around online, and if we see many examples of discussions showing photos of a particular virus causing that particular style of deformation/malformation ------ then that could say quite a lot about what sort of virus could result in that particular deformation/malformation (and even the 'addition' of violet colours to your white flower).

Eg. Click Here. The question is whether the effect is the same as in your flower. Also noting that extra colouring or patches in certain regions isn't necessarily colour 'break' patterns (plus dry/shrivelled bits) often associated with certain orchid viruses.

If we find can't find a single source of discussion online that points toward a link between virus and that sort of particular deformation result ....... then that will tell us something, such as probably not virus related. But rather, genetically related.

We have to agree with rbarata - virus testing will help to see whether it has a virus, or not.

Also - if possible, make your images larger - because the images are relatively small - and nobody can see clearly the regions of most interest. Also, take close-up shots of the regions of interest. And compare the side-lobe of one of your flowers (pattern) with one of those flowers in the link - to see if there are similarities.



Last edited by SouthPark; 04-15-2020 at 12:59 AM..
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Old 04-14-2020, 09:01 PM
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Cattleya with glitching flowers. Is this a virus? Female
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I would be suspicious enough to want to test (assuming that you want to keep a plant that consistently produces crippled flowers) The crippling is likely genetic. But the random color pattern in the petals does look a lot like what one would get with virus, particularly with Catts. But the only way to be sure is to test. I have a friend, who is a scientist by trade and very interested in viruses... he put together a batch of photos of plants that did and did not have virus, and ran it with a large group of very knowledgeable people (AOS judges, hybridizers, etc) to guess which were and which weren't.... the results were slightly worse than chance (what one would get by flipping coins) Test it or toss it.
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Old 04-15-2020, 04:19 PM
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You can buy a five pack of Immunostrips from Agdia for $52. They test for Cymbidium mosaic virus and Odontoglossum ringspot virus. You can create an account or call them. They also have a lower shipping rate than the options shown on the website (around $10).
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