Too much anthocyanin? High powered LED use.

[stevek216]

Hi all,

I have a pretty powerful LED light (Spider Farmer SF2000) in a grow tent with my orchids. The top shelf is maybe a foot away from the light so gets very, very bright light.

A few of my orchids (mostly dendrobiums, a rhyncostylus, some tolumnia, a few brassavola/hybrids) are getting to possibly an extreme level of anthocyanins, aka the leaves are turning almost nearly uniformly red where they get the light.

I'm wondering if anyone knows to what level this might be hurting the plants. In my mind the big issues when it comes to high light are heat/UV radiation that could burn leaves, but presumably producing all this anthocyanin is taking resources away from other functions too. Is this a case of too much of a good thing?

On the flip side, these plants with very high anthocyanin content are growing quite well - multiple new growths, robust root growth, etc. Whether that's in spite of or because of the higher light I'm not so sure.

Maybe my solution is to just get more very high light orchids

[Clawhammer]

Over time I believe the lighting you described will become problematic for your top shelf plants. I haven't studied it in a scientific way but I believe too much light ultimately slows down growth based on my observations in my grow room. I believe the high light levels cause most species of orchids unhelpful stress and some leaves with high levels of anthocyanins ultimately burn or fall off. Unlike succulents, stress does not improve the look of orchids and should be avoided. I have raised my lights where ever possible and in some cases I have resorted to shade cloth.

[stevek216]

Originally Posted by Clawhammer

Over time I believe the lighting you described will become problematic for your top shelf plants. I haven't studied it in a scientific way but I believe too much light ultimately slows down growth based on my observations in my grow room. I believe the high light levels cause most species of orchids unhelpful stress and some leaves with high levels of anthocyanins ultimately burn or fall off. Unlike succulents, stress does not improve the look of orchids and should be avoided. I have raised my lights where ever possible and in some cases I have resorted to shade cloth.

Thanks, I suspected that might be the case. I think I'll just have to get another shelf and do some rearranging to fully take advantage of the lighting setup, because I do have SOME orchids that seem to do just fine.

[Dimples]

I have no idea about orchids specifically, but in some plants, high light levels at the very upper range of what the plant can tolerate can slow/reduce photosynthesis and other associated processes by way of multiple modes of action. Slower/reduced photosynthesis = slower/reduced growth compared to a more tolerable light level.

[stevek216]

Originally Posted by Dimples

I have no idea about orchids specifically, but in some plants, high light levels at the very upper range of what the plant can tolerate can slow/reduce photosynthesis and other associated processes by way of multiple modes of action. Slower/reduced photosynthesis = slower/reduced growth compared to a more tolerable light level.

Very interesting - I guess the maxim 'more isn't always better' continues to apply. In spite of my desire to just pump up the wattage and get infinite growth

I think I'll be buying another shelf set today and rearranging things to get some finer control of my light levels. Thanks for the feedback!

[TZ-Someplace]

If light intensity is hurting the plants it is far, far above the level where they slow down photosynthesis to protect themselves. They can even slow down photosynthise in the late morning in anticipation of higher light levels coming at mid day.

Too much total light at moderate intensity is a different thing. I would try a dose of Epsome salts w/o other fertilizer. The magnesium helps the plant move sugars into the vascular system better. Anthocyanin production is often a response to that problem, especially in colder weather.

[Acuminata]

Originally Posted by stevek216

Hi all,

I have a pretty powerful LED light (Spider Farmer SF2000) in a grow tent with my orchids. The top shelf is maybe a foot away from the light so gets very, very bright light.

A few of my orchids (mostly dendrobiums, a rhyncostylus, some tolumnia, a few brassavola/hybrids) are getting to possibly an extreme level of anthocyanins, aka the leaves are turning almost nearly uniformly red where they get the light.

I'm wondering if anyone knows to what level this might be hurting the plants. In my mind the big issues when it comes to high light are heat/UV radiation that could burn leaves, but presumably producing all this anthocyanin is taking resources away from other functions too. Is this a case of too much of a good thing?

On the flip side, these plants with very high anthocyanin content are growing quite well - multiple new growths, robust root growth, etc. Whether that's in spite of or because of the higher light I'm not so sure.

Maybe my solution is to just get more very high light orchids

not too much light,too much UV ,anthocyanin is a plants "sun tan",as long as the leaves aren't actually burnt...

[estación seca]

I heard Alan Koch of Gold Country Orchids discuss this issue at a lecture. He said producing the protective anthocyanins does take energy away from the plant it could use for other purposes. He said even plants known to have freckles, such as Cattleya aclandiae, produce more and better flowers in much lower light.

[Ray]

Orchids are “niche plants” in every way. The chemical processes that occur within a plant are all affected by the various parameters of the environment around them, and they have an extremely limited capability to compensate for a deficiency or excess in any of them.

If you are at that “Goldilocks point”, which they have evolved to function optimally, then the plant is easy to grow and flower. Stray too far from that in any of the parameters, and they won’t perform as well.