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  #11  
Old 09-17-2021, 09:21 AM
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Keith,

The Norman’s Bay color saturation might be cultural, as well. I’m not denying possible photo manipulation, but plants I have acquired from Ed are quite true to the images he had posted.

Plus, Ed has been around a long time, so his might be a more original clone , while yours is more likely a clone of a clone of a clone, which can introduce genetic changes.

It would be interesting to compare the genetics of “originals” with multi-generational clones to see the differences.
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  #12  
Old 09-17-2021, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Keith,

The Norman’s Bay color saturation might be cultural, as well. I’m not denying possible photo manipulation, but plants I have acquired from Ed are quite true to the images he had posted.

Plus, Ed has been around a long time, so his might be a more original clone , while yours is more likely a clone of a clone of a clone, which can introduce genetic changes.

It would be interesting to compare the genetics of “originals” with multi-generational clones to see the differences.
The photo has disappeared from the post, but I don't think that was the natural color. Looking at the rest of the plant, it looked like the photo had been taken in warmer light or with the wrong white balance settings, and the white balance wasn't corrected in post processing.
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  #13  
Old 09-17-2021, 11:14 AM
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I usually have the same result. I buy an orchid that looks red and get either a more pink, a peach, or a darker color when growing it. I am guessing that it is my growing conditions. Some plants' flowers have different colors depending on pH, different amounts of certain nutrients, temperature...etc. If you get everything right, the flower will be a certain color. It is possible that some Cattleyas, depending on their breeding, follow this route, too.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2021, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane56Victor View Post
Well I think the photo of your bloom is stunning!
Just so there isn't a misunderstanding, the photos are all from the web. They're just examples.
Aside from that, thank you for your reply!

-Keith
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---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Keith,

The Norman’s Bay color saturation might be cultural, as well. I’m not denying possible photo manipulation, but plants I have acquired from Ed are quite true to the images he had posted.

Plus, Ed has been around a long time, so his might be a more original clone , while yours is more likely a clone of a clone of a clone, which can introduce genetic changes.

It would be interesting to compare the genetics of “originals” with multi-generational clones to see the differences.
You could easily be right. Unless the photo includes a grey reference that can be used to calibrate the monitor, image color can vary considerably from monitor to monitor. Mine isn't calibrated, and flowers look very different on my other monitor.

Norman's Bay is a very high quality dark flower that got its vivid color from a Larense-type (dark) C. lueddemanniana. It has been described as "almost seeming to glow." So it could be that it is as pictured.

I wasn't intending to point a finger the photo source, but apparently I did without intention. I didn't know the forum would print the internet photo URL.

-Keith

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---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadeflower View Post
Low humidity makes the sepals reflex back more
This is exactly the type of answer I was hoping for.

Can you tell me how you came to this conclusion?

-Keith
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Last edited by K-Sci; 09-18-2021 at 12:01 AM.. Reason: Remove execess spaces added automatically.
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2021, 11:06 AM
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Keith,

Variations in environmental conditions at different times of the year can have major impact. Here are two photos of Rby. Nosy Williette 'Maplewood', one from a March flowering, the other from a July flowering (with solid colored lip).

Aside from difference in lip coloring, the petal stance is better in the March blooming.
Attached Thumbnails
How do they get the flowers so perfect for photos?-b0033-rby-nosy-wiliette-maplewood-20190420_091807-2-jpg   How do they get the flowers so perfect for photos?-rby-nosy-williette-maplewood-20190705_093128-5-jpg  
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  #16  
Old 09-18-2021, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairorchids View Post
Keith,

Variations in environmental conditions at different times of the year can have major impact. Here are two photos of Rby. Nosy Williette 'Maplewood', one from a March flowering, the other from a July flowering (with solid colored lip).

Aside from difference in lip coloring, the petal stance is better in the March blooming.
Hey Kim,
Is it safe to assume that the flowers developed/opened in hotter weather for the July bloom.

I had a Phalaenopsis that flowered indoors during the winter, then outdoors in the spring. I wish I could find the picture. Two flowers on the same spike were so different that one would have thought they could not possibly have come from the a same plant. Only the flower size was the same. I think this occurred, at least in part, because this Phal. was a harlequin.

Thanks for your post!

-Keith
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Last edited by K-Sci; 09-19-2021 at 08:20 AM.. Reason: DIfferent -> Same
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  #17  
Old 09-19-2021, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairorchids View Post
Keith,

Variations in environmental conditions at different times of the year can have major impact. Here are two photos of Rby. Nosy Williette 'Maplewood', one from a March flowering, the other from a July flowering (with solid colored lip).

Aside from difference in lip coloring, the petal stance is better in the March blooming.

quality post and content...thanks kim! amazing that this is the same plant, but illustrates how photos only tell part of the story.
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2021, 03:26 AM
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I'd like to re-emphasize that mericlones taken from mericlones taken from mericlones often diverge greatly from the parent plant. If you must have the identical plant, pay the extra money for a division. If you don't want to pay that much, it's important to get a mericlone propagated from a meristem taken from a division of the original plant, and not a mericlone of a mericlone. You still might get a mutated plant. Ask the seller what they have. If they don't know, you might not get the plant you want.
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  #19  
Old 09-19-2021, 09:17 AM
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This thread has a lot of excellent posts. I started a list of people to acknowledge, but then gave it up when the list got too long.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kim,

The orchid in your photo could be a thread topic all by itself. The hybrid name "Nosy Williette" sparked my curiosity right from the start. Thinking it was probably a typo, I looked it up. I was also stumped by the abbreviation "Rby.", which I learned was Rhynchobrassoleya. Keith Davis must have a good sense of humor, not only in the naming this hybrid, which he registered in 2019, but in choosing the two plants to hybridize.

I can only guess that he chose to cross Rlc. Williette Wong with Brassavola nodosa seeking to create a yellow miniature with the vigor of nodosa combining the divine but very different scent of both parents. Returning to the topic of flower color variations, Nosy Williette is B. nodosa (50%) + C. dowiana (30%) + C. tenebrosa (5%) + C. bicolor (4%). This is a fascinating ancestry, that surely has a story to tell all by itself.

Okay, the variation in lip color shown in your photo makes a lot of sense given that this orchid is 30% dowiana, and that its ancestry includes Rlc. Toshie Aoki, which is hands down my wife's favorite Cattleya. We have six plants of three named cultivars all awarded AM/AOS. One characteristic of them all is a red flare in the petals that varies widely from year to year. I suspect that this is peloric coloration that derived from the C. dowiana lip, which can vary widely, even from flower to flower on the same plant.

Thanks for your post, Kim. It was not only informative, but kept me entertained for a good half hour.

-Keith



Edit: Looking at more on this plant I found one source that seemed to say that Kim, not Keith Davis was the person naming/registering this hybrid.
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Last edited by K-Sci; 09-19-2021 at 10:12 AM.. Reason: Remove all the extra line feeds added automatically.
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2021, 10:49 AM
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Keith,

There is a little bit more to the story about the name. I never name a grex without making a serious effort to track down the originator.

About 6 years ago, I purchased one as an unnamed seedling from Waldor Orchids. It was lost in the Dec 2017 freeze, that killed 99.99% of my collection. In a subsequent visit to Waldor, Dave Off gave me 3 more seedlings to help me rebuild.

Two bloomed relatively quickly, with one being very good (see below). I checked with Dave to find out where the plants came from. He advised me, that he bought a flask from Carter & Holmes.

Carter & Holmes then advised me, that their lab records indicated that the seed pod came from Keith Davis.

Keith Davis could not remember the cross, nor did he have any plants from it. At that point, he and C&H both agreed, that I could go ahead and name it.

These plants are not seasonal, so they bloom randomly throughout the year. As illustrated previously, flower coloring & shape can vary depending upon environmental conditions.

The three plants bloomed quite differently, from left to right:
'Akhtar'
'Maplewood'
'Freya'

Which brings me to another favorite subject. These photos abundantly illustrate why you should always buy more than one, when looking at seed grown plants (unless you are picking from plants in bloom).
Attached Thumbnails
How do they get the flowers so perfect for photos?-b0032-rby-nosy-wiliette-akhtar-20190521_150709-2-jpg   How do they get the flowers so perfect for photos?-b0033-rby-nosy-williette-maplewood-20190705_093128-6-jpg   How do they get the flowers so perfect for photos?-b0375-rby-nosy-williette-freya-20210712_150548-2-jpg  
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Last edited by Fairorchids; 09-19-2021 at 10:52 AM..
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