Reverse Osmosis Water Management

[WaterWitchin]

Well, I had to change my cartridges. And by the time I fiddled around, got the carbon cartridge flushed, then the RO membrane flushed, and figured out I had originally installed the whole thing upside down (don't know if that really matters or not), now I can't remember where the damned hoses connect up again. Came here to view instructions AGAIN, now back to the BatCave. I may be back here again if all doesn't go well.

Meanwhile, I got that nifty little connect/unconnect thing that looks like an open ended wrench. It made my life sooooo much easier disconnecting things. Who knew?

And BTW, I got my water bill from that week long fiasco of running RO for a week. Winter my water runs around $60-80 per month. It was $345, which beats our previous screwup record by close to $100.

The $10 float was worth the aggravation getting it installed.

[Roberta]

Yikes! That water bill is HUGE!!

[WaterWitchin]

That’s what RO
running solid for a week or
So will do for ya!

[kvet]

Hello! I want one . WW, do you now have it working?

This thread was supremely informative and has helped me understand how RO works.

May I butt in with some questions?

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by kvet

Hello! I want one . WW, do you now have it working?

This thread was supremely informative and has helped me understand how RO works.

May I butt in with some questions?

Yep, up and running. And absolutely! We're here to teach AND to learn.

[kvet]

Okay Few questions, will try to remain brief and organized for you all!
1. What should I consider if I wish to send RO water to three different taps? The system will be in my "basement" (it has drains on the floor to the landscape), which is directly below the kitchen. Route a line to my sink, to my fridge, and leave a tap in the basement as a "just in case" - actually, I plan to fill up the watering cans here instead of the kitchen for the orchids and other houseplants.

2. What pitfalls if I want to go with a larger storage tank, from the 3 gallon? Do I need it.. no, but, from what I've read, things really slow down after about a gallon is emptied.

3. Like most people, the "waste" bothers me. Sub parts follow.
3a. The Watt's Zero Waste is interesting, however:
i) when the water is pushed back into the system, and I turn on the hot water immediately or two days later, am I paying for it.. twice?
ii) should there be concern about increased salts in the waste water/effluent shortening lifespan of the water heater? It's unclear to me whether the solubles will precipitate to the bottom or "eat away" at the sacrificial anodes in the unit (mine's a new, installed last June).
iii) should I be concerned about intermiitent pressure increase for my specific situation: the house was built in 1989, which in my area this time was notorious for poor construction, shortcuts, etc. Additionally, the PO had a lousy handyman who did stupid things. As an example, he or she used iron pipe at faucet fixtures. The good news is that the house was a vacation home before me, so it didn't see much use. It has not been repiped as far as I know.

3b. I don't have much garden space at all, so saving the waste/effluent to water the garden may not be practical. Everything is on a drip system. Although most of the "soil" is sand that's now been amended, I haven't watered since the last rain end of March, and now a month later, the soil is still moist under the mulch (I'm a little worried about this). With this in mind:
i) does a "valve" of sorts exist (or could be built) where I could tap into the drip system, and use the effluent water when the tank is full, then, revert over to mains when nearly empty?
ii) if this said tank is full, is there a valve that would then send water to wasteline?
Maybe all these valves are a bad idea, too many potential points of failure

4. I have a FloJet BW5000A with a shut-off at 40psi. It's the lower-flo version, hooked up to my espresso machine which I no longer use. Can anyone see any sort of potential use for this in the system?

5. What's the difference between Ray's residential system and the ones available through home despot or amazon (specifically the "made in USA" flag on it)? Other than support from/to Ray

More questions, but lets start here

[WaterWitchin]

Hi Kvet. I'll give ya my response in a bit. Appointment with the AC inspection guy right now. Meanwhile, for kicks go read this thread in case it's helpful... A few ways to move water...

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 AM ----------

1. What should I consider if I wish to send RO water to three different taps? The system will be in my "basement" (it has drains on the floor to the landscape), which is directly below the kitchen. Route a line to my sink, to my fridge, and leave a tap in the basement as a "just in case" - actually, I plan to fill up the watering cans here instead of the kitchen for the orchids and other houseplants.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with those three "taps." Drinking water for kitchen sink? RO water for ice?

2. What pitfalls if I want to go with a larger storage tank, from the 3 gallon? Do I need it.. no, but, from what I've read, things really slow down after about a gallon is emptied.

Why a three gallon storage tank? That's not much RO water. And slow down after a gallon? Are you talking about the pressurized tanks make specifically for RO? In my personal opinion, they're highly overrated.

3. Like most people, the "waste" bothers me. Sub parts follow.
3a. The Watt's Zero Waste is interesting, however:
i) when the water is pushed back into the system, and I turn on the hot water immediately or two days later, am I paying for it.. twice?
ii) should there be concern about increased salts in the waste water/effluent shortening lifespan of the water heater? It's unclear to me whether the solubles will precipitate to the bottom or "eat away" at the sacrificial anodes in the unit (mine's a new, installed last June).
iii) should I be concerned about intermiitent pressure increase for my specific situation: the house was built in 1989, which in my area this time was notorious for poor construction, shortcuts, etc. Additionally, the PO had a lousy handyman who did stupid things. As an example, he or she used iron pipe at faucet fixtures. The good news is that the house was a vacation home before me, so it didn't see much use. It has not been repiped as far as I know.

I had to look up the Watts Zero Waste...not familiar with it. Wow, pricey! That's kinda overkill for watering orchids. My waste water runs nowhere close to 1:12 by the way. As a plumber's daughter, no, I wouldn't want even harder water that comes through my tap going back through my water heater.

Most RO units have a minimum and maximum pressure that works. It's doubtful it would be a problem, but I don't know your water pressure. "intermittent" or fluctuating shouldn't be a problem. We run the RO and still run a dishwasher or laundry at the same time. Showers, not so much because the water gets too cold in the shower while running the RO. We don't have very good water pressure.

3b. I don't have much garden space at all, so saving the waste/effluent to water the garden may not be practical. Everything is on a drip system. Although most of the "soil" is sand that's now been amended, I haven't watered since the last rain end of March, and now a month later, the soil is still moist under the mulch (I'm a little worried about this). With this in mind:
i) does a "valve" of sorts exist (or could be built) where I could tap into the drip system, and use the effluent water when the tank is full, then, revert over to mains when nearly empty?
ii) if this said tank is full, is there a valve that would then send water to wasteline?
Maybe all these valves are a bad idea, too many potential points of failure

I agree you're attempting to do way too much with valves. If you choose to use a "tank" for waste water, it wouldn't keep filling up so you have to run it to a waste line. When you get enough RO water you shut off the RO. Unless I'm not following what you're saying.

4. I have a FloJet BW5000A with a shut-off at 40psi. It's the lower-flo version, hooked up to my espresso machine which I no longer use. Can anyone see any sort of potential use for this in the system?

Not a clue. Not familiar with it. Maybe if you had water pressure that was too high for the RO, you could somehow incorporate it. But I wouldn't have a clue how to do that.

5. What's the difference between Ray's residential system and the ones available through home despot or amazon (specifically the "made in USA" flag on it)? Other than support from/to Ray

I don't know what Ray's systems are. I have a fridge with one of those in-fridge water systems, and it has a filter so I don't worry about RO for it. We drink it, use it for our coffee water. My RO unit is a $100 or so set that appears to always be on sale from Amazon for $50-60. When I recently ordered cartridges, it was cheaper to buy the whole thing instead of cartridges separately. It fills up a 50 gallon in less than 12 hours. I just keep it simple. It's the first time I've replaced a cartridge in a couple of years.

More questions, but lets start here

[kvet]

Ah, I see the confusion I believe you are using the RO system to fill up a tank, and you are using this to water the plants. You are not using it for personal consumption. This means the simple $50-100 system works fine, you turn it on, wait to fill up the tank, turn it off. Use as necessary. The difference, I'm trying to do it all I want to use the system both for personal consumption and the plants. The units I've been looking at come with those pressurized tanks, I thought that was required - they are typically 3 gallons, and I think real use is more like 1 gallon due to the air pressure requirement.

Three way split: the sink would provide tepid water (upstairs plants, soup, drinking, etc), fridge would supply cold drinking water (water still tastes bad even with the in-fridge filter). Third tap in basement for downstairs plants because I'm lazy, and might as well since it's right there anyway ;D

My water here is not atrociously bad, but I don't like its taste. Currently running through a mavea purity C, and it's past due for a replacement. This filter doesn't cut out the salts so the water leaves deposits, and is wreaking havoc on my other coffee and tea machines.

You can get zero waste retrofit, too, not the entire system. I'm really curious to know whether it costs money to run the water a second time... I can't see it forcing the water meter to go backwards? I learned about it on Ray's site.

Consider the flojet as a pump. It was designed to fit atop a 5-gallon water jug, and pump water to coffee machines or drinking units. I've modified it to work with a 5 gallon glass carboy, and in thinking this through, could probably further modify it to work with one of those 55 gallon tanks - can I use the big tank for potable water, too? Little afraid of it not being fully sanitary? Hmmm.

[WaterWitchin]

I would think you could at least use one of those 5 gallon workmen coolers like you see on the back of construction trucks, at kids ballgames, etc.

Yes, you're doing something totally different. I'm just watering plants.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by kvet

1. What should I consider if I wish to send RO water to three different taps? The system will be in my "basement" (it has drains on the floor to the landscape), which is directly below the kitchen. Route a line to my sink, to my fridge, and leave a tap in the basement as a "just in case" - actually, I plan to fill up the watering cans here instead of the kitchen for the orchids and other houseplants.

The systems I sell have a 3/8" pure water line. Put a TEE in that line near the system, with a manual valve to allow you to fill up containers there.
Put a second one up in the basement ceiling, splitting to the sink RO faucet and the refrigerator.
Add a "pH stabilizer" cartridge either before that TEE or in line with the two kitchen outlets.
RO water tastes nasty, so those cartridges pass it over calcite.

Originally Posted by kvet

2. What pitfalls if I want to go with a larger storage tank, from the 3 gallon? Do I need it.. no, but, from what I've read, things really slow down after about a gallon is emptied.

Larger tanks are certainly available, and for your application, likely advisable. Other than taking up slightly more floor space in the basement and the upgrade cost, there are no pitfalls I can think of.

Originally Posted by kvet

3. Like most people, the "waste" bothers me. Sub parts follow.
3a. The Watt's Zero Waste is interesting, however:
i) when the water is pushed back into the system, and I turn on the hot water immediately or two days later, am I paying for it.. twice?

My understanding is that the flush water is injected under pressure into your hot water system. It just sits there until you use it.

Originally Posted by kvet

ii) should there be concern about increased salts in the waste water/effluent shortening lifespan of the water heater? It's unclear to me whether the solubles will precipitate to the bottom or "eat away" at the sacrificial anodes in the unit (mine's a new, installed last June).

The dissolved solids content will be about 25%-33% higher than the incoming water. You'll be injecting it back into "raw" water, diluting it. You'll likely never see a difference. The minerals in your water aren't corrosive. They might build up on heating elements in electric water heaters, but again, probably at an unnoticeable rate.

Originally Posted by kvet

iii) should I be concerned about intermiitent pressure increase for my specific situation: the house was built in 1989, which in my area this time was notorious for poor construction, shortcuts, etc. Additionally, the PO had a lousy handyman who did stupid things. As an example, he or she used iron pipe at faucet fixtures. The good news is that the house was a vacation home before me, so it didn't see much use. It has not been repiped as far as I know.

Likely not an issue. The volume sum of all of the plumbing in your house is bigger than you think and you won't be making the full amount of RO every day anyway.

Originally Posted by kvet

3b. I don't have much garden space at all, so saving the waste/effluent to water the garden may not be practical. Everything is on a drip system. Although most of the "soil" is sand that's now been amended, I haven't watered since the last rain end of March, and now a month later, the soil is still moist under the mulch (I'm a little worried about this). With this in mind:
i) does a "valve" of sorts exist (or could be built) where I could tap into the drip system, and use the effluent water when the tank is full, then, revert over to mains when nearly empty?
ii) if this said tank is full, is there a valve that would then send water to wasteline?
Maybe all these valves are a bad idea, too many potential points of failure

Too complex and too much to break.

Originally Posted by kvet

4. I have a FloJet BW5000A with a shut-off at 40psi. It's the lower-flo version, hooked up to my espresso machine which I no longer use. Can anyone see any sort of potential use for this in the system?

If you're going to use a pressurized storage vessel, I see no need for that.

Originally Posted by kvet

5. What's the difference between Ray's residential system and the ones available through home despot or amazon?

That's hard to say, as there are so many different systems available. Let me throw this out:

►My systems are also made in the USA using standard components, so replacement filters and membranes can be purchased from me, or from most larger hardware store chains, or online. Some have proprietary cartridges - avoid those.

►My systems come with extra filters that will carry you through 2 full years of regular maintenance. Most of the others do not.