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  #1  
Old 02-25-2018, 11:48 AM
Mountaineer370 Mountaineer370 is offline
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Default East Window versus West Window

This is something that has been bothering me for a long time, and I have not found a satisfactory answer in any of my online searches. I hear all the time, on this board and from many other sources, that for the most part, an east-facing window is fine for most orchids, but beware of a west-facing window, as it may be too hot, the plants could get burned, etc.

This topic came up again in conversation with someone at an orchid show I attended yesterday, and that's what made me decide I was going to try to find the scientifically valid reason for the west-window warnings.

When the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, it is, for all intents and purposes, the same distance from our planet for the whole day. The temperature of the sun does not change from morning to evening. How can the sun coming through a west window possibly be "hotter" than that coming through an east window?

Yes, of course I know that the outdoor temperature generally gets warmer as the day goes on, but I'm talking about indoor growing here, and for most of us, that means a temperature-controlled interior environment.

I can see where differences may arise depending on the size of your respective windows, whether there are any porches or awnings, and whether the window is shaded by trees or structures. That could definitely make a difference. But I am having a hard time understanding the often-given reason that sun coming in a west window is hotter or somehow "stronger" than sun coming in an east window.
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2018, 12:29 PM
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Orchid Whisperer Orchid Whisperer is offline
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Depending on the situation, either an east or west window could be fine. But, the light is not the same.

In the morning, the east/morning sun is more likely to be cutting through more haze/fog/humidity than in the west/evening. Hence dew in the morning. That cuts down light intensity.

That lower morning temperature may be a factor too. Though I think it is more important for plants grown outdoors.
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Old 02-25-2018, 12:56 PM
Laticauda Laticauda is offline
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You can try an experiment.
Get a cold cup of milk and a heated cup of milk. Now add hot water to both and taste them. The milk is our atmosphere and the hot water is the sunshine.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:53 AM
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Sometimes information is repeated through the years because it's been said in the past and passed down, and the context has been lost.

But I suspect it has at least something to do with the fact that even indoors, it's usually warmer at the end of the day and combined with the light, sensitive plants can overheat or burn. Back when I had a few masdevallias I grew them in an east facing window because that room generally stayed cooler than the room that faced west.

I don't like these general sweeping comments because it depends too much on the type of orchid and also how far north or south you are located. I've grown many orchids in both east and west facing windows without seeing much of a difference, except for a few specific genera. And I'm so far north now that I grow everything (including Phals) in south facing windows.
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Old 02-26-2018, 11:05 AM
CJ Green CJ Green is offline
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I don't have any scientific answer, but anecdotally, I've found that maxim to be true. The afternoon sun coming through my west-facing windows is intense and lasts longer than the morning sun. And unless your windows are super-great at insulating (mine aren't) I think the temperature is a factor, especially if your plants are very close to the window itself. If you want, you could set a thermometer on your windowsill and record the temperature--I have an inexpensive thermometer/hygrometer that records the high/low for a 24-hour period. It's interesting to note the fluctuations.
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:03 PM
Mountaineer370 Mountaineer370 is offline
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Thanks to all of you who replied. The humidity often being heavier in the mornings is something I had overlooked. I'm sure tiny water droplets suspended in the air would reflect sunshine back, making what reaches the windows less intense. (I'm thinking the extreme example would be fog.)

I agree that everybody's house can be different. I'm sure that the type of windows you have makes a difference. Also, the distance from the window that you place the plants.

It was just one of those things that you hear repeated often, and there comes a time when you think to yourself, "Why does everybody say that?"
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:06 PM
Laticauda Laticauda is offline
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Cheri, it's better to question conventional wisdom, ask salt and fat!
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Old 02-26-2018, 11:15 PM
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The hydroxyl radicals within water (the O-H bonds) have a resonant frequency that is a close match to part of the infrared spectrum, which might attenuate some of the morning heat.

I learned that when working with Bell Labs in the early development of optical fiber waveguides, and it never occurred to me how that might apply to sunlight.
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Old 02-27-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer View Post
In the morning, the east/morning sun is more likely to be cutting through more haze/fog/humidity than in the west/evening. Hence dew in the morning. That cuts down light intensity.

That lower morning temperature may be a factor too. Though I think it is more important for plants grown outdoors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
The hydroxyl radicals within water (the O-H bonds) have a resonant frequency that is a close match to part of the infrared spectrum, which might attenuate some of the morning heat.
I do not have any data to support this following premise, but follow my logic if you will ...

The diffusion of light factor through fog/moisture in the air as OW mentioned could very well play a role in lower morning light intensity. However, a possibly equally or more significant factor would be what Ray alluded to in combination with another idea put forth by OW. First some ground work:

1) Water is a "heat sink" ... that is a basic fact. Compared to many substances, water requires a surprising amount of energy to raise its temperature, and loses that energy quite slowly. (Note: It is not an uncommon practice in some northern areas for gardeners to protect early spring plantings from unexpected frosts by placing a "water wall" around plants. Theoretically, during the day, the water is heated by sunlight and over the course of the night releases enough heat to prevent frost damage. Never having put this to the test myself, I am forced to rely on some hearsay as to the efficacy of this use.) In addition to energy absorption to raise temperature, even more energy (a surprisingly high amount, in fact) is required for water to undergo a phase change or "change of state" (solid --> liquid, liquid -->gas).

2) The infrared part of the light spectrum is the heat portion of the spectrum. (Interesting science tidbit -- at least to me -- there are animals like some snakes which are capable of "seeing" in the IR spectrum.)

3) Fog is a colloid -- a suspension of water droplets in air.

So over the course of the night, water vapor (a gas) in the air often loses enough energy (cools) to condense into water droplets which, if small enough, remain suspended in the air. Some of the IR (heat) energy of morning sunlight is absorbed by the suspended droplets -- warming them and giving them the energy needed to undergo the phase change to vapor. Over the course of the day, ambient temperatures continue to rise as the airborne water reaches its absorption capacity of heat energy at that intensity. Thus the commonly observed phenomenon of it being cooler in the morning than afternoon.

Now having said all that, while AC obviously offsets the impact of outdoor temps, it is also commonly observed that temps will be higher during the summer months right by the window than deeper within the AC cooled room. By extension, it would be very plausible for south or west facing window areas in the northern hemisphere to be warmer, as a result, than the east or north facing ones.

Another point of note, such differences between east vs west are themselves can be significantly impacted by many factors such as: season; climate (arid areas such as Arizona will have far lower outdoor RH than places like Hawaii or Louisiana, for example); and presence or absence of trees, awnings, or other obstacles to the sunlight shining on/in/through said windows.


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Old 02-27-2018, 12:54 AM
malteseproverb malteseproverb is offline
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I too have anecdotal evidence! I used to grow all of my orchids in west windows for several years, and 2 years ago I switched to east windows after a move. Every single one of my plants has improved in the east window set up. In the west windows, many plants suffered and struggled to put out good growth despite getting PLENTY of light, and I believe this was all due to temperature. You talk about climate controlled, and maybe that is true for you, but I don't run my AC when I'm at work. By 5pm those west-facing rooms are already sweltering in Philadelphia summers.

The way I see it, as a windowsill grower, you want to get as much of that summer sun as possible. If you grow in an east window, you can maximize your direct sunlight and keep plants closer to the window without worry.
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