leaf loss or "Palm Tree stage"

[talyce66]

I bought this vanda about 3 years ago and dont know what kind it is but its a vanda anyway. The seller told me that it was about 25 years old, and boy is it big. However, it hasn't bloomed in over a year and the leaves are turning yellow and falling off.
I was told it was going through something called "the palm tree state." I was also told something about taking it out of the basket and laying it on its side. If it had roots up high enough I would have just cut it off and not had this problem! Any suggestions?

[Ocelaris]

what kind of conditions are you growing it in? How much light? What kind of watering/fertilizer regime are you running? I've never heard of a "palm tree stage" assuming all conditions are good, I don't see any reason why leaves would turn yellow and fall off. It's acceptable if roots are pushing off the leaves, and the top growth is very strong, but more often losing leaves, wilting, yellowing etc... are signs of poor conditions...

Any pics?

[Neverend]

Vandas need good light, also a lot of water and high humidity. Perhaps you can look into these conditions and see if that's the problem. They also need to be kept warm, so do keep it safe from frost!

[talyce66]

My light conditions are fine. All the other vandas are doing fine. I water it every day, as I do all the others, as well as weekly fertilization. I still haven't figured out how to post pictures on my blogs, or else I would show a picture. It rarely frosts here in Central Florida, so I dont have that problem. The plant is old, so I figured that could be the reason for the leaf drop. It gets the same care as all my other vandas, but there just isn't any roots high enough for me to cut the bottom off. Like I said, someone told me about removing it from the basket and laying it on its side, but they weren't real sure about how to go about it. Just don't know how to get any roots to grow up there enough to cut the bad off!

[susiep]

I just inherited 2 orphan vandas and they have the "palm tree" look, too. I only know they were put out in the yard after blooming and forgotten . I am thinking too much sun, not enough water for these two. I refuse to give up on them. I have moved them into my shade house to encourage them to start sending out some new roots. If all goes well I will cut them back from the bottom eventually. Here is a picture :http://www.orchidboard.com/community...hp?photo=10634

[shams]

Wow, that's weird. I've never seen a vanda do that before.... but then, I guess I only see vandas when people are trying to get me to buy them Not that it's hard!

I agree Susie! Don't give up! As long as they are still alive, right

[Ocelaris]

Yeah, I don't know what might cause that, but when I see any orchid giving up leaves, they better be making new ones or I get worried. The nutrients are stored in the roots and leaves, if it doesn't have enough reserves to make new leaves from the stores in the roots, they seem to give up old leaves to power the next new leaf.

It's not necessarily a bad thing if they're making new roots, new leaves and losing old leaves... especially if it's a very tall plant. If it has so many leaves, it has very little motivation to keep the bottom ones if they aren't producing as much energy as the new fresh ones.

I would say that it isn't a normal thing for the plants, but certainly common enough if there is a colloquial term for it. Because there are examples of very large plants which haven't given up their bottom leaves, example here of a vanda roxburghii tesselata:

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...tesselata.html

slightly smaller, but none-the-less all leaves seem to be intact:

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...ar-suavis.html



I think it becomes more difficult for the plant to absorb nutrients, and move them up through the stem of the plant as it becomes larger, simply because the stem hardens over time and the physical osmotic pressure to move nutrients and water upwards over greater lengths is harder... They can't grow for ever indefinetly either, I'm not sure what the end of life of a vanda would be...

I bought a fairly small Vanda denisoniana which has the palm look to it, and roots are very tough, almost impossible to get them to turn green. It only has about 6 leaves, but it has probably 30 or more spots where leaves used to be. I assume this was either wild caught at one point, or basically neglected (being a cool grower) and it shed leaves keeping only those which are the most efficient at the top. It's coming back, growing a new leaf very quickly, but I'm not getting any new root growth which bothers me.

So my experience says that it's basically not happy and trying to maximize it's energy efficiency to what is available. I'm not saying you're not doing a good job if all your others are happy, but the plant is the boss, not any of us. I'm not trying to put anyone on the defense, I just always believe that when I am having a problem with a plant, it's me, not the plant... not that I may be doing the best possible job and all my other plants love it, but there's something that I'm missing. Whether it's conditions or a virus/bugs... whatever the case may be, I have to believe that plants just don't become unhappy for no reason as part of their life cycle... but I've never owned a giant vanda either...

Maybe it's a cool growing or has other needs different than the typical heavily hybridized? What kind is it?

[susiep]

Ocelaris, you made some good points. Today I went to visit a guy at Broward Orchid supply and got some good advice. He had a couple "palm tree" vandas. I also believe this is a attempt by the plant to survive in adverse conditions. He suggested treating the stem (the area where new roots should be) with rooting hormone. Just peel away the dead, brown leaf remnants and soak it good with KLN. I am going to try that. Once we can get it to send out roots again we can cut away the old part.

[Ocelaris]

I think I'm going to try the same with my little Vanda denisoniana, I have heard good things about that. And I do have all the brown chaffe too.

[talyce66]

susiep, what is KLN? I like my plants and all, but my knowlege is limited. I do have a bottle of root stimulator made by Green Light. I ust it when I transplant small plants I start from seed such as tomatoes and what not. Never tried it on an orchid, but I would almost be afraid to since I dont know if the ingredients would be compatable. Looking at the old vanda, I do see new leaf poking out the top, and there is a little nub of a new root barely coming out where the old leaves were once there, but just not high enough!