Vanda Coerulea

[hanzy08]

Originally Posted by silken

Very nice,

First blooms can be different than when the plants are mature. I agree with Bud that it will likely flatten and get larger in the days to come. I was amazed how much my Vanda Sansai Blue did that. It has a fair bit of coerulea in it.

You guys are right! The "blue" just came out today! it's a lot stronger almost glowing! I am really in love with the flower! I can stare at it all day! the lip became very dark like ink blue and the tesselations. The flower stretched a bit too.
[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

[LovePhals]

That is so beautiful, I am thinking about ordering one from there! I should have bit the bullet and ordered it with my last order. Now, after seeing this thread I want it more, that is such a great flower!

[hanzy08]

Originally Posted by LovePhals

That is so beautiful, I am thinking about ordering one from there! I should have bit the bullet and ordered it with my last order. Now, after seeing this thread I want it more, that is such a great flower!

It is a very nice species. although most of the ones being sold today are the "improved" ones. They are still very nice the blue tesselation really jumps out against the purplish background!

[NYCorchidman]

Beautiful flower and nice clean plant!

[Fairorchids]

I just came across this thread today. I hate to bring this up, but I have reservations as to whether this is a true Vanda coerulea.

I know that line breeding has produced some vastly improved coeruleas over the wild collected plants of 50 years ago, yet there are some red flags on this one

The first clue is in the shape. Vanda coerulea flower tend to be somewhat taller than wide. This flower is too round.

Secondly, in most coeruleas the petals twist. Original wild collected plants usually twist 180 degrees. Line breeding has removed most of the twist, but there is usually some hint of it.

The colors are very intense for a corulea, but that could be from camera having difficulty capturing the right hue.

I have compared the lip structure with a number of photos on the internet, and I am not sure whether the lip struture is 100% right, or possibly a little off. Photos show some variation in this area, but then I suspect that not all of those photos are true coeruleas either. The lip on your plant does not show clear signs of sanderiana (usual improvement component), but it is not a prototypical coerulea lip either.

Overall, I would say that there is a 75% probability that this is a hybrid.

[hanzy08]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

I just came across this thread today. I hate to bring this up, but I have reservations as to whether this is a true Vanda coerulea.

I know that line breeding has produced some vastly improved coeruleas over the wild collected plants of 50 years ago, yet there are some red flags on this one

The first clue is in the shape. Vanda coerulea flower tend to be somewhat taller than wide. This flower is too round.

Secondly, in most coeruleas the petals twist. Original wild collected plants usually twist 180 degrees. Line breeding has removed most of the twist, but there is usually some hint of it.

The colors are very intense for a corulea, but that could be from camera having difficulty capturing the right hue.

I have compared the lip structure with a number of photos on the internet, and I am not sure whether the lip struture is 100% right, or possibly a little off. Photos show some variation in this area, but then I suspect that not all of those photos are true coeruleas either. The lip on your plant does not show clear signs of sanderiana (usual improvement component), but it is not a prototypical coerulea lip either.

Overall, I would say that there is a 75% probability that this is a hybrid.

I agree that this is not the wild form of vanda coerulea but I don't think it's a hybrid either. This is a photo of the flower ten days after the bud opened.

[IMG][/IMG]

as you can see the petals twisted. The wild form coerulea has a very sharp hook on the lip but this lacks the sharpness of that hook which is one of the outcomes of line bred vanda coerulea. The plant itself flowered at a very small size and the leaves are spaced much further and being short in diameter which are typical characterisitics of vanda coerulea.

[CR7cristiano]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

I just came across this thread today. I hate to bring this up, but I have reservations as to whether this is a true Vanda coerulea.

I know that line breeding has produced some vastly improved coeruleas over the wild collected plants of 50 years ago, yet there are some red flags on this one

The first clue is in the shape. Vanda coerulea flower tend to be somewhat taller than wide. This flower is too round.

Secondly, in most coeruleas the petals twist. Original wild collected plants usually twist 180 degrees. Line breeding has removed most of the twist, but there is usually some hint of it.

The colors are very intense for a corulea, but that could be from camera having difficulty capturing the right hue.

I have compared the lip structure with a number of photos on the internet, and I am not sure whether the lip struture is 100% right, or possibly a little off. Photos show some variation in this area, but then I suspect that not all of those photos are true coeruleas either. The lip on your plant does not show clear signs of sanderiana (usual improvement component), but it is not a prototypical coerulea lip either.

Overall, I would say that there is a 75% probability that this is a hybrid.

With all due respect, you could not be any more incorrect in your statement here. While everyone that is anyone that has grown vandas for some time knows this is not the wild form of Coerulea, we can all identify a remake of coerulea when we see it. The new and improved Coeruleas have flatter flowers without petal twisting as well as a very round shape. The top line bred Coeruleas maintain their intense 'blue' colour but have gained increases in size and they have also bred out the windowing and twisting of the petals.
This V. Coerulea here is not far off from the wild one in its line breeding as it still has maintained some of its wild attributes, but a Coerulea nonetheless. If you know coerulea you will also know that their are two variety in the species, one that is found at high elevations and the other at lower elevations. What you may not have known, and based on your statement this is clear, is that Coerulea is used in hybridizing because of how dominant its blue colour is and its very strong tendency to impart that colour to its progeny. In fact in most cases, a direct cross with coerulea will almost always come out in some shade of blue no matter what it is crossed with because of how strong a trait this is in coerulea.

So, do I believe this is a Coerulea? Yes, I certainly do.
Is it a top line bred clone, highly unlikely.

[nikkik]

Beautiful!! I am happy you posted a picture of one from Hausermann's, as I have been considering ordering one from them when they come to our show, but I have hesitated because I wasn't sure what the color or flower form would be. I have been hoping that a gentleman I know will sell me 1 of his 8 wild collected coeruleas.

[hanzy08]

Originally Posted by nikkik

Beautiful!! I am happy you posted a picture of one from Hausermann's, as I have been considering ordering one from them when they come to our show, but I have hesitated because I wasn't sure what the color or flower form would be. I have been hoping that a gentleman I know will sell me 1 of his 8 wild collected coeruleas.

You can base your decision from the pictures i posted and the people's opinions on this thread. In my opinion, it is worth it and the breed is good. I guess it depends really on what kind you prefer either good line bred ones or the pure wild forms which is a lot harder to find. Mind you this is the first flowering of this plant and it will get better with the next flowering cycle when it comes to quality and quantity of the flowers.

[Bud]

I agree with CR7cristiano....

I have both the wild form and the plant that you have. I both got it from Andy's.
I also got some grief on the same plant that you have; some upstart member 'trying to be know it all' told me its a hybrid....but I stuck to my tag and the trustworthiness of my grower.
Though the years they have developed the 4N coerulea....with many variations of growing the specie.
If your grower says it is a Vanda coerulea specie....believe it.
Haussmann's is a reputable grower. I don't think they will sell you a hybrid and pull it off as a specie. I cant relate to that idea.
I would understand if it was a Taiwanese or a Thai seller....they tend to misspell or mislabel tags because they are not familiar with the western alphabet.