Bean Leaf Definition?
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

Bean Leaf Definition?
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
  #1  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:28 AM
Shoreguy's Avatar
Shoreguy Shoreguy is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2018
Member of:DCOS
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 76
Default Bean Leaf Definition?

I am beginning to suspect that the concept of bean leaf Neofinetias is not meaningful or at best not clearly defined.

I always thought that having a rounded leaf tip was the defining characteristic but now I occasionally see advertisements referring to plants being offered as beanleafs which have pointed leaves!

Is the whole concept really defined or just meaningless advertisers jargon? Is there some clear definition known only to the privileged few?

Is it that a bean leaf is a bean leaf if it is in the eyes of the beholder? ie totally meaningless. I have no idea.

Last edited by Shoreguy; 04-13-2018 at 10:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes DeaC liked this post
  #2  
Old 04-13-2018, 02:36 PM
Pattywack's Avatar
Pattywack Pattywack is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,761
Default

I see New Would Orchids and The American Orchid Society both state bean leaf as thicker and shorter as the description. Iím sure Iíve seen a thread here relating to bean leaf or Mameba. Hakumin was very helpful in that thread as usual. Iíll see if I can locate it.

The bean leaf Neos are so cute and definitely my favorite. I like their heaven facing flowers as well.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-13-2018, 02:51 PM
Shoreguy's Avatar
Shoreguy Shoreguy is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2018
Member of:DCOS
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattywack View Post
I see New Would Orchids and The American Orchid Society both state bean leaf as thicker and shorter as the description. Iím sure Iíve seen a thread here relating to bean leaf or Mameba. Hakumin was very helpful in that thread as usual. Iíll see if I can locate it.

The bean leaf Neos are so cute and definitely my favorite. I like their heaven facing flowers as well.
The top ďstickyĒ thread has a definition. But is it authoritative, also I donít assign any trust to what NWO or even the AOS says. Is it just an advertising concept?

A description referring to shortness or thickness doesnít define anything, how short and how thick, too subjective.

Perhaps width to length ratio, but if so what ratio for mature leaves?

Is there an official definition by an authoritative source?

Hakumin's post below is a must read, a lot of information is involved, even the tsuke comes into play.

Last edited by Shoreguy; 04-13-2018 at 11:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:06 PM
Hakumin's Avatar
Hakumin Hakumin is online now
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Zone: 7a
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Age: 31
Posts: 177
Bean Leaf Definition? Male
Default

I think it needs to be first understood that the term "bean leaf" has lost some meaning in translation. The original term in Japanese is Mameba 豆葉. Mame 豆, while out of context does literally mean "bean," as a prefix, it takes on a different meaning, "mini" or "dwarf." In this way, it is used to indicate dwarf varieties or breeds of things, or for things that are smaller than it should be. For example, Mame-shiba is a toy breed of the larger Shiba-inu; Mame-zakura is a dwarfed cultivar of a Sakura species; Mame-sara is a small plate for small amounts of pickles or spices; etc.

Now, that said, the usage of the term Mameba can be loose in some circles, and more restricted in others. It all depends on the specific differentiation required in the context of the conversation.

For most of growers internationally and the vast majority of growers in Japan, Mameba simply implies any dwarfed variety with short but full width leaves. The specific shape of the tip isn't important even though most varieties of this type will have rounded leaf tips. There are also many many long leaf varieties with rounded leaf tips that would never be categorized as Mameba.

On the other hand, for some growers and most neo breeders in the context of line breeding, the term Mameba is a bit more specific, and requires the plant to have short but full width leaves, a non-crescent shaped tsuke, and rounded and upward facing or mutated flowers.

For these people, the varieties that have short but full width leaves, but have standard flowers and crescent tsuke, are called Tanba rather than Mameba. Tanba 短葉 literally means "short leaf"

From what I understand from my Korean breeder friend, Mameba plants and Tanba plants have different inheritance habits, which is why those breeders make a distinction.

However, as said before, the majority of growers do understand the term Mameba as simply any plant that has shorter than normal leaves while retaining full leaf width. When the plant has shorter than normal leaves, but also has very narrow leaves, they are usually categorized in the Hariba category. Hariba literally means "needle leaf"

Of course however, there are many shades in the spectrum of characteristics and precisely where one makes the distinction can be vague especially when less experienced growers are involved. Also, there are some very very small varieties with extraordinarily short leaves that are narrower than what you could call full width, that are still categorized as Mameba due to its overall behavior and characteristics. And of course, there is no quantitative or purely objective definition of the term by any authoritative source including either the Japanese or Korean neo associations. Because of these issues, the usage of the terminology can be a bit vague sometimes, and even the authoritative sources can vary a bit in what specifically they intend when using the term.

Last edited by Hakumin; 04-16-2018 at 01:18 AM..
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 4 Likes
Likes estaciůn seca, Shoreguy, Pattywack, bjmac liked this post
  #5  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:51 PM
Shoreguy's Avatar
Shoreguy Shoreguy is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2018
Member of:DCOS
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 76
Default

Thank you Hakumin.

There is a lot involved in this.

I knew you were going to contribute in this discussion.

Last edited by Shoreguy; 04-13-2018 at 11:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-13-2018, 11:09 PM
Pattywack's Avatar
Pattywack Pattywack is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,761
Default

Thank you Hakumin, very much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bean, concept, defined, definition, leaf


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bean Leaf Neofinetia (Mameba) shakkai Vanda Alliance - Neofinetia 19 08-23-2017 11:59 AM
neofinetia bean leaf chidlove Vanda Alliance - Neofinetia 9 07-19-2017 11:35 PM
Problems with formosae dendrobiums - yellowing leaf tips calvin_orchidL Dendrobium Alliance 8 08-09-2009 05:38 PM
Bean leaf? lambelkip Vanda Alliance - Neofinetia 11 03-22-2009 10:17 AM
Seikai, bean leaf type shakkai Vanda Alliance - Neofinetia 15 10-29-2008 10:02 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:13 PM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.