proper watering

[u bada]

I haven't had too much luck with neofinetia, although I'm very drawn to the aesthetic of the whole practice and trying them again. Got a few recently and really want to do them right this time.

The ones I had before I believe I let dry out too much, although I was told to let them dry out completely. Well, I grow outside here in SoCal, somewhat inland, and probably dried out too much in summer, and coupled with heat and low humidity, not too good on them. On other hand, when I watered them I soaked them in a bucket and think they stayed wet too long before they dried out completely... they also looked like they rotted out, started by losing lower leaves. On top of all that I gave them some direct light which is too much here. So yeah, could a number of problems but have since improved grow space and care overall.

Anyway, I'm wondering how everyone waters them here... I know in winter when cooler letting them dry out completely is fine, but during the growing season how wet are you suppose to keep them? I'm thinking I could easily keep them fairly wet for days and they'd appreciate it, particularly as humidity can be low here.

Currently the new ones are in sphag balls, except one in bark. One i've had mounted for years, did well for me but didn't water it enough last summer and it died back. Very slow comeback now it's spring, knock on wood, could be fine, we'll see.

Currently I've adjusted my watering in general with all the orchids and keep everything evenly spritzed/sprayed as to stay evenly moist with some drying out (more or less according to species of course).

thanks for your help

[Shoreguy]

Just two comments, the first you probably don't want to hear.

It’s a lot easier to control watering,temperature, and light by growing indoors and bug control is less of a problem. I know there are some who swear by outdoor growing but I don’t buy it.

As far as watering during the growing season, yes, they do not want to dry out completely but that doesn't mean they like to remain sopping wet as the roots need to breath. Dunking in a bucket is not appropriate.

Temperature drop at night in winter is helpful to encourage flower spiking but some neos will initiate blooming anyway.

Giving advise on watering is not easy and that is why you have not received any replies till now.

[u bada]

Thanks, appreciate your input.

I have some windows (and controlled grow tanks) where I grow things quite well... but things that don't know need so much a temp drop at night, most of these are warmer/intermediate growers. Figured neo's need a temp drop to grow and flower well? If not I certainly could keep them inside.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

It’s a lot easier to control watering and temperature by growing indoors and bug control is less of a problem. I know there are some who swear by outdoor growing but I don’t buy it.

I was of that same opinion, especially having the luxury of a controlled greenhouse environment, but since I moved to NC with no greenhouse, I've been growing my plants out on my deck in the summer and in the house in winter.

While they're outside, I find watering to be just as easy as it was in the greenhouse, and far easier than it is in the house, and surprisingly, I have had no insect issues.

[AnonYMouse]

Did you fail to water when the plants needed to be watered or did you not know when to water?

Since the latitude of Japan is similar to California, light and temps should also be similar outdoors. Japan gets more rain and humidity so watering would be different.

FWIW, I grow indoors and my sphag mounds gets watered when it gets crunchy, maybe a couple of more days, when actively growing. They've gone a lot longer when things are slow. They are all in net pots nested in solo cups (yogurt containers, whatever works) and get soaked, saturated with water/fertilizer. Drain the excess water, allow to drip. Depending on ambient conditions, I'll place them back in the solo cups or not.

I grow mostly in LECA and the process is the same except for frequency. I will leave a bit of water in the solo cups, not S/H because they will dry out (and I guess that keeps the rot away-IDK, it's working FOR ME).

Neos don't need a temp drop. I don't think they care.

[u bada]

Thanks, Ray... btw, got a oncidium ampliatum from you years ago and it got big and just finally bloomed. Really cool plant. Growing outside has it's challenges here but definitely easier to water and certain things do much better outside.

Anon, yeah I remember you growing things I like and for being in SF you could grow lots of things I love outside from what I know, yet you appear to grow things well indoors. go figure. You have fans running for grow areas? use artificial light for the neos?

Anyway, yeah the neos I had in the past I let completely dry so moss was crunchy then soaked well. They ended up rotting. Another thing is I attributed problems I was having to using dirty tank water from water changes to the fish tanks (water quality is generally neutral low ph, lower dh, etc.), so now I only use clean R/O or treated water (water prepared for said tanks). Hoping that will help this year with neos. That's improved things for practically everything... however, recently just lost a neo hybrid (baby angel) to rot, just spritzing it 3-4 days a week on windowsill, and it's in open bark mix... puzzling.

[AnonYMouse]

I wonder if your dirty tank water was too depleted of oxygen?

I grow indoors because of attack squirrels, space limitations and neglect potential. All the Neos are in east windows. One window is slow since it is smaller and higher (shorter light duration) but steadily growing.

There are different light requirements within the species. I've burned griddle marks from the window film pattern on one plant when it's neighbor is dark green and solid. I've had to white wash some of the film and even so, have near black leaves (high anthocyanin, not burn) on one and light green on another.

I've tried growing Neos in all manner of ways. Some just take too much dedication (like on slate slabs) but are doable. It took way over a year to figure out how to grow on an olla (not self watering btw, still needs care). I don't think media is the issue. Light is also not an issue (I've had to shuffle mine around, it takes time to get results).

New roots should be starting now so see how the clean water affects the growth. Change one variable at a time and wait a couple of months if you can. That is culture. Rapid decline is probably disease/pest and require immediate thorough cleaning and treatment.

I have a ceiling fan in another room that provides some circulation and a window fan (not directly on the plants) when it gets intolerable in the Summer. I have some supplemental LED but not for the Neos, but they might get some exposure.

And I killed near everything in tanks!

(I'm ~40 miles and 0-30°F from SF.)

[naoki]

If you use koke-dai (sphag mound with hollow inside) on a pot with a large hole, you can stick your finger from the bottom hole. If you are using clay pots, you can easily make the bottom hole bigger with pliers. The top surface of shagnum moss is dry, but you can feel a bit of moisture in the moss inside. That's the time to water. I wouldn't soak them in a container since the mound can collapse. Solid core moss ball could work in LA, but if it doesn't dry out for a long time, it would be difficult. Koke-dai is basically similar to mounting on a piece of wood. If you can water every 2-3 days in the summer, they will do well.

[Fairorchids]

I grow mine in net pots, filled with spaghnum (no open core) and packed finger tight. In the greenhouse I water weekly in winter, and twice weekly the rest of the year.

In the past, I have grown them outdoors in full sun (in NJ) from June through mid October. That required a heavy watering every 2 days, and twice daily spritzing every day. Based on my later experiences with other genera, I would say that the outdoors season in NJ could be from May 1st through end of Oct or even mid Nov if no frost is forecast..

[u bada]

Thanks all, great growers here chiming in for me, appreciate.

Re koke-dai, I prefer to grow them that way, and the 3 I got recently from satomi are all in moss balls although they don't have a hole inside them. I'm wondering if I could just finagle a hole instead of repotting all together, as the moss looks fresh and I hesitate to stress out any orchid at all if I can.

And what's the deal with getting water on leaves? I think part of my issue with them in past is I dunked or sprayed the whole plant (as I use to do with many without problems) and most likely rot set it... it's the idea that I absolutely should get no water on leaves whatsoever ever (or base of leaves)? If so, for those growing in greenhouses are you really watering each plant one by one, either spritzing the roots or dunking? And if not, then spraying or irrigation certainly would get water on the leaves...

Of course it's easy to wonder how they get watered by rain all over and presumably handle rot in the wild, growing horizontally off branches or not... or how growing them upright in moss balls or baskets are an advantage?

Would love to hear how others watering as well.

Still cool outside in the evenings (low 50's) for LA, so examined them this am, and spritzed the moss balls. Not too heavy but not too light. Been a few days. Tenzan showing active root tips, the benisuzume and kutsuwamushi not quite yet....