Three Spurred Neofinetia Flowers

[NeofinetiaCanada2014]

Hi Matt, if a Manjushage blooms with a triple spur, it will always bloom with triple spurs. Unless it is an unconfirmed seedling of a Manjushage selfing or cross.


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[NeofinetiaCanada2014]

And Hakumin, thanks for showing the triple spur upward flowers! I didn't know about it. Also the link to article is offline. Is there another working link?

Leslie


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[Hiester]

Here's the article as attachment:

EDIT: Oops. Deems attaching a PDF didn't work. Maybe a size limit?

[AussieVanda]

I don't think you can mate, more to do with OB ensuring it doesn't fall foul of copyright infringements.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by NeofinetiaCanada2014

And Hakumin, Also the link to article is offline. Is there another working link?

That's weird, the link still works on both my computers. Try googling "Plant Physiology Magazine Wind Orchid Flower Mutation" to find it. It comes up when i use that search query

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------

Originally Posted by ramp

Matt,
Hakumin,
As far as I found out Benikanzashi and Hanakanzashi are two different varieties but the differences are never cited. NWO has them listed as separate varieties.

Well, the thing with NWO, I've noticed on their site that they have Yoroidoushi and Chousentetsu listed separately, but they're supposed to be the same plant just re-registered with a new name. (Several japanese sources state this as well as Orchids Ltd's page here: https://www.orchidweb.com/products/n...agger~585.html )

Because of that, and the fact that some Japanese sources seem to be unsure which is which, I'm still not ruling out the possibility that it might be two different names for the same plant...

perhaps it could be lengths of the extra spurs that is the difference.

This Hanakanzashi shows exceptionally short extra spurs:

[ramp]

Originally Posted by NeofinetiaCanada2014

And Hakumin, thanks for showing the triple spur upward flowers! I didn't know about it. Also the link to article is offline. Is there another working link?
Leslie

Leslie, You can download it here, just put it on my Google Drive. https://drive.google.com/folderview?...28&usp=sharing

Cheers,
Marc

---------- Post added at 04:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 AM ----------

Hakumin,

Its certainly possible what you say about the spur length. Pictures I have seen of Benikanzashi show much longer spurs.

About double spurred and triple spurred varieties. I read on several sites, including Seed Engei, that the first blooms on jong plants could be normal flowers. Could this be the case, becouse the plants are not yet strong enough?

The thing with NWO is probably that Kristen is fairly new to all of this as she promptly took over from Glen.
In my search for different varieties I came and come across many things and it is sometimes very difficult to figure out what is correct and what is not. I'm sure I'm making a lot of mistakes. and then there is an other huge problem. Some use Japanese names, some Korean, which does not make it much easier. I think we all try to do our best to do the right thing and have to help each other where we can. We do not have enough knowledge of Japanese, certainly I don't. And to keep track of all these changes is hard because for us its not a way of life. I don't even think we can join the Japanese Fuukiran Society and if we could, we certainly could not read their correspondence because of the language barrier. I'm shore if we contact Kristen, she would check it out and set things right. On her site there are more things that are not correct but if you mail her she will correct it if necessary.

I know we are all (including me) freaky when it comes to our hobby. So why don't we just help each other.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by ramp

Hakumin,

Its certainly possible what you say about the spur length. Pictures I have seen of Benikanzashi show much longer spurs.

About double spurred and triple spurred varieties. I read on several sites, including Seed Engei, that the first blooms on jong plants could be normal flowers. Could this be the case, becouse the plants are not yet strong enough?

The thing with NWO is probably that Kristen is fairly new to all of this as she promptly took over from Glen.
In my search for different varieties I came and come across many things and it is sometimes very difficult to figure out what is correct and what is not. I'm sure I'm making a lot of mistakes. and then there is an other huge problem. Some use Japanese names, some Korean, which does not make it much easier. I think we all try to do our best to do the right thing and have to help each other where we can. We do not have enough knowledge of Japanese, certainly I don't. And to keep track of all these changes is hard because for us its not a way of life. I don't even think we can join the Japanese Fuukiran Society and if we could, we certainly could not read their correspondence because of the language barrier. I'm shore if we contact Kristen, she would check it out and set things right. On her site there are more things that are not correct but if you mail her she will correct it if necessary.

I know we are all (including me) freaky when it comes to our hobby. So why don't we just help each other.

Firstly, of course we should all help each other. I have experience in both Korean and Japanese, which is why I always try to pipe up when someone has some confusion between names in the two languages. I'm also apparently one of the few who can research these plants in Japanese and I try to post any interesting findings whenever I can.

I'm always up for helping others whenever I can, and of course I get help from others in areas where my knowledge is lacking.

As for the multiple spur flowers, yes, younger plants might get fewer spurs (and other characteristic flowers may show weaker characteristics) than plants that are well established and have multiple growths. An example is my Soubiryu. I got the plant in 2011. the first year, it bloomed with one flower. The second year, with 3 flowers, one of which had only one spur. This year the plant bloomed with 7 flowers and 2 with only one spur. The flowers look better developed each year and I have confirmed on Japanese and Korean websites that after the plant is well established, they rarely get single spurred flowers.

So yes, that hanakanzashi photo that I found might have shorter spurs because of being a younger plant. It would begin to constitute a different plant, I believe if the characteristics stay consistent over time.

I'll be doing more research on the multiple spur varieties on the Japanese and Korean websites soon.

Shall I start a new thread about multi-spur flowers rather than continuing to commandeer this thread?

[MattWoelfsen]

I think it would be great to have a separate thread of multi-spur Neofinetia flowers. We can always refer back to this one. Maybe I can get Sonya our White Rabbit Supermoderator to excise this part of the thread where we started talking about the Manjushage? I'll PM her and ask.

I think this conversation deserves its own thread. Thank you all for participating in this conversation.

[jeremiah.chua]

Benikanzashi and Hanakanzashi is the same plant. This was confirmed by Mr. Kasahara, when I spoke to him and Satomi at the Neofinetia judging event in Santa Barbara, last Saturday.

[ramp]

Hakumin,
I didn't want to sound so ungrateful before. I simply wanted to state that Fuukiran is still a mystery for most of us and useful info in English is hard to find. So I"m glad you can help sometimes.
I think an other problem for now and future is the Korean and Japanese naming of different or the same varieties. So far I found over 500 different variety names. This is without the different possible alternate spellings. I'm trying to put a database together and it is proving hard to find out which is which.

It would be wonderful to start a new tread on multispured neo flowers. Thinking of it, a treat on all odd shaped flowers would be useful too.

Matt,
It would be normal for Mansjuhage to be a bigger leaved plant as it seems to be a mutation of the Amami island form.

Jeremia,
If Benikanzashi and Hanakanzashi are the same variety, which can be. Then why are they offered/sold under different names or what really should we call this variety?
Could you find out?

There are probably more varieties around, going under different names. It's all so confusing.