What do you do about new growths not showing phenotype characteristic of the variety?
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  #1  
Old 06-02-2020, 09:57 AM
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Default What do you do about new growths not showing phenotype characteristic of the variety?

A question for the Neofinetia experts. What do you do when one of your variegated Neos produces a new growth not showing the desired phenotype? Leave it? Remove it? It depends?

I'm asking because last year I bought a second, nicely variegated Fugaku (my first one is solid green). It has a new growth developing which doesn't seem to have any markings at all, and all 3 leaves to date are green. Should I be patient and see if the following leaves have variegation, or remove the growth? The plant is still quite small (1 mature fan, 2 halfgrown fans, and 2 newly growing fans, one of which is the green one).
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:52 AM
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What do you do about new growths not showing phenotype characteristic of the variety? Male
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I cannot speak specifically to neo's, but often it is the lighting conditions (too dim) that result in loss of variegation.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray View Post
I cannot speak specifically to neo's, but often it is the lighting conditions (too dim) that result in loss of variegation.
I've noticed that with some house plqnts, but concerning Neos, I think the type of variation this plant has is fairly stable since it doesn't fade in the winter the way my tiger striped Neos do. But you're right that it could be a cause since the new growths started late last growing season and even though they're under light in the winter, it's not enough. Though one new growth is green and the other is variegated.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:49 AM
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Give it a chance. Sometimes the first few leaves are not indicative of what is to come.

Once it is mature, if it hasn't developed properly, it can be removed especially if the plant is strong enough to accept its loss.
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:36 PM
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What do you do about new growths not showing phenotype characteristic of the variety?
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I think variegation on Neo’s has to do with your overall cultivation... light is a factor, humidity I think plays a larger role... higher the humidity the better...
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:06 PM
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What do you do about new growths not showing phenotype characteristic of the variety? Male
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
A question for the Neofinetia experts. What do you do when one of your variegated Neos produces a new growth not showing the desired phenotype? Leave it? Remove it? It depends
It depends on the variety, and in what way the growth is not showing the desired phenotype.

In varieties with chimeral variegation (shima, nakafu, fukurin), if the new growth shows up solid green or completely ghost, and it is not expected to regain the variegation, then the answer is almost invariably that they will have to be removed sooner or later.

In torafu varieties, loss of variegation is almost always caused by cultural conditions, and can be regained if conditions are corrected. So in those varieties, you'll have ta adjust the conditions rather than remove those growths.

In varieties known for their physical forms, some (e.g. Nishidemiyako mutations like ginseikai, hayabusa, etc) are known to put out offshoots that have reverted to a different physical form. In those, even though it can sometimes be caused by cultural conditions, once the growth has emerged reverted, it usually will not go back to the correct form, so in those cases, removing it is usually the result.


Quote:
Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
I'm asking because last year I bought a second, nicely variegated Fugaku (my first one is solid green). It has a new growth developing which doesn't seem to have any markings at all, and all 3 leaves to date are green. Should I be patient and see if the following leaves have variegation, or remove the growth? The plant is still quite small (1 mature fan, 2 halfgrown fans, and 2 newly growing fans, one of which is the green one).
The kind of variegation that Fugaku is known for does not really disappear that readily. Fugaku variegation develops best in higher light, so in your case, if it were me, I'd bump up the light levels and leave it on a while longer. If the variegation doesn't show up after another 2 or 3 leaves, then I would remove it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
I cannot speak specifically to neo's, but often it is the lighting conditions (too dim) that result in loss of variegation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camille1585 View Post
I've noticed that with some house plqnts, but concerning Neos, I think the type of variation this plant has is fairly stable since it doesn't fade in the winter the way my tiger striped Neos do. But you're right that it could be a cause since the new growths started late last growing season and even though they're under light in the winter, it's not enough. Though one new growth is green and the other is variegated.
In Neos, there are many many more different types of variegation than you usually see with other houseplants, and they each have their own triggers and conditions needed to develop. While there are certainly varieties where more light is needed to develop and maintain variegation, there are just as many that need lower light to do so, and others where light levels isn't really a factor.

However, in the case of Fugaku, as mentioned before, the variety is known to do best in higher light, so bumping up the light is my first suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoreguy View Post
Give it a chance. Sometimes the first few leaves are not indicative of what is to come.

Once it is mature, if it hasn't developed properly, it can be removed especially if the plant is strong enough to accept its loss.
This is true, though whether or not this applies depends on the characteristic you're looking for. When it comes to offshoots, you can usually expect a neo offshoot to develop its full characteristics once it begins to develop its 4th or 5th leaf. In some types of variegation like fukurin and nakafu, the variegation can actually emerge inverted or absent until the growth matures. For example, Tenkeifukurin will often have babies that show nakafu variegation, which then inverts to normal fukrurin after 3 or 4 leaves. Many Fukiden will often let out babies that look like ghosts, but they will almost always develop the green centers after about 4-5 leaves.

However, there are times when it's pretty obvious that a growth will not gain variegation even when it only has 3 leaves. Ghost growths in many shima varieties can be identified this early, but even so, many growers will leave it on a while longer just to be 100% certain.

Solid green growths can be a bit more complicated, because there's a chance that there could be subtle variegation obscured by the greenness of the leaves, so it's probably better to leave it on until you're fully confident it won't develop any variegation.




Overall though, keep an eye on how new growths develop over time. The kind of baby that will emerge from a parent growth in many varieties is dictated by chance. However, that does not mean that your care does not affect that chance. You can increase or decrease the probability of the plant producing babies with certain characteristics by adjusting your conditions. In most chimerally variegated varieties, increased light will increase your chances of the variegation becoming more pronounced. Lower light will increase the chance of the variegation becoming greener. So watch the plant and see what it does in the long run and make your adjustments from there. If your plant has a habit of putting out ghost babies, it might be an indicator to reduce your light levels. If your plant has a habit of putting out solid green ones, you might need to increase your light. Of course there are other considerations to keep in mind as well, such as fertilizer, humidity, etc.

In the end, you'll have to watch and learn from your plant to see what it wants.
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Last edited by Hakumin; 06-02-2020 at 04:18 PM..
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2020, 05:02 PM
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Thanks everyone for your input, and thank you Hakumin for your very detailed and knowledgeable answer!

Through trial and error over the past 3 years I have been discovering which of my plants do better in brighter or more difused light, but Fugaku is one that I didn't know much about yet since I've had it less than a year. I will progressively move to higher light and see what that green growth does in the coming months.
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