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  #1  
Old 11-19-2013, 03:35 PM
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Hello folks,

I was thinking/researching a few things and came up with a fantastic idea. The idea is relatively simple and obviously involves a Dendrophylax lindenii, hence the title of this thread. I have made a list of potential candidates (surprisingly Jumellea made the short list) in this tribe for cross breeding and will now explain why it is a good idea to breed the leafless habit out of the species. (not knowing if this is actually possible [or legal] beyond theory)

with the increasing number of large invasive snakes skulking around in the everglades it is only a matter of time before the 2000+ wild ghost orchids in our state becomes 1000 or less. I am not thinking these plants will survive the 'high traffic' of the new species and so in order to survive it will have to shorten its lifecycle and increase its own vigor or create very strong roots, unless it is easier for the plant to just start making large not-early deciduous leaves again. otherwise it will just get rarer and rarer....and since I am not able to methylate unmethylated genes or do whatever to manipulate the species into working with only its own chromosomes, the only thing left is the classic way. By crossing and backcrossing to a different Dendrophylax landrace lindleyii or by mixing the F1 generation and accepting a 20ish percent of statistically significant genetic preservation in offspring (the amount above 75% of preservation). Choosing within the same tribe will help increase that preservation, achieved basically by accomplishing a successful pod and selecting for flower shape.

I have no idea if the leafless habit is dominant or connected to a series of other expressions that have to line up just right, or even what other Angraecums live in the west indies that have leaves and bloom in the late spring, but the idea of giving the species a real chance to survive climate change and snakes seems like it'd be worth a try.

I'm thinking that's almost enough reasons, but then consider...

About the evolution of this particular species within the tribe, I can see how with all of its irregular care it seems as if it is evolving to become sort of a semi-mycotroph or lichentroph or whatever (you get my meaning). And like the far rarer Australian Rhizanthella gardneri there is something so highly specialized about this Dendrophylax that it threatens its own existence, and so comes the idea to intercede and breed a stronger plant.

Anyone seeing this is good? bad? not worth the effort? boring? crazy? an interesting way of accessing the ideas of evolution and the appreciation of orchids as a veneration of nature? please feel free to add a discussion

Last edited by gravotrope; 11-22-2013 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: corrected time of blooming
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2013, 03:48 PM
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Does the large snakes destroy the endangered orchids? How is the growing number of snakes endanger the plants?
Good luck with the crossbreeding, I have not yet heard of a lindenii hybrid. You might be the first to do it.
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:11 PM
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Lol I don't even have one at this point it is just an idea. I have also never seen a Python destroy a ghost orchid, I created a fiction where it just seemed likely due to the facts that they both live in the same habitat and ghost orchids are fragile no matter where they cling. Since "Burmese pythons eat amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals that vary in size from small rodents to deer" (from Wikipedia) and because all of these animals would be far less likely to impact this species (all of which have decreased in population in reverse to the python population) I could imagine situations where they were being damaged and just not making it through. Obviously it goes without saying that imagination is not usually used as evidence(or valid evidence), except for when it is.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:20 AM
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Boisduval scale is a much larger threat to the survival of lindenii than those Burmese pythons.

What does a intergeneric hybrid have anything to do with the survival of a species? I can't go Brazil and introduce a Cattleya Jinn in reparation to the loss of Cattleya millerii. What's the point? If you wanted to do something involving breeding, why not make polyploid populations?

What about getting a dozen flasks and exposing them to scale and selectively breeding those showing resistance to them? Or just putting as many fruits as you can on known host trees.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:51 AM
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I found this interesting since I just read "The Orchid Thief" iBook a couple weeks ago.

The Orchid Thief - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
The Orchid Thief is a 1998 non-fiction book by American journalist and author Susan Orlean, based on her investigation of the 1994 arrest of John Laroche and a group of Seminoles in south Florida for poaching rare orchids in the Fakahatchee Strand State Preserve.
The book is based on an article that Orlean wrote for The New Yorker, published in the January 23, 1995 issue. Plant dealer Laroche was determined to find and clone the rare Ghost Orchid for profit.
To cut to the chase, he fought the law and the law won.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:37 AM
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I assume the idea is to introduce the hybrid into the wild where D. Lindenii lives (bad idea, likely to be illegal, hybrid may compete with the species, hastening extinction).

Fine to try making the hybrid, just don't put it in the wild.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:54 AM
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the first generation polyploidy (4N) is the only one worth it, since it would make a much burlier plant, but the future offspring doesn't preserve the doubling of all the gene material. the plant could have a stronger immune system as well, just not sure about that. I had never heard of boisduval scale before, sounds French. I'm listening to a video on it now.

I use weak malthion, garlic water, and neem oil & soap periodically for my plants, so I guess that's why I've never heard of the problem before.

I was considering how a more visually vandaceous plant would just be tougher in general, though if the lindenii immune system isn't strong enough, having to focus only on root associations, then leaves might actually make it harder for the plant to survive.

@jayfar - It is an interesting story and hilarious film (Adaptation) and for the record orchid poaching is terrible and at the same time historically significant since biologists and naturalists can have the same net effect with regards to taking plants out of their habitats. it opens a door to understanding evolution and ecology as well as human influence in these ideas. I know it's illegal to even collect pollen from plants in the wild too, at least not without state permission.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:36 PM
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Why? The leafless trait is what makes this species extraordinary.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:32 AM
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Hahahahaha!!! I have thought about this so many times, but like Anonymouse says its what makes it so beautiful!!!!

that was the plan for me, I will try it someday for sure if It will work

however there are elemetnts of this that cannot be ignored, prezygotic isolation for one.

might not work.. we might be able to pollinate, but not fertilize the embryo , so on.

and also, i could see how a fawcetti and a lindenii could be crossed.. maybe maybe maybe, but something else would be really a huge task.. to over come, just by looking at the biology, evolution and so on.


but this thought crosses my mind quite often with mine.. too bad mine got cold and I think my biggest one was lost.. but i'ms till holding on to it, hoping!!!

weird thought the fawcetti can stand temps of 50 degrees. but the lindenii can not.. I learned this the hard way.. my heat didn't work. and my 9 inch lindenii was lost.. i think... i have hope

---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------

but i would never do this in the wild for sure

---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------

but i would never do this in the wild for sure
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:50 AM
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Improving the survival rate in a natural population is only of any benefit if the plants can reproduce. There are no guarantees that lindenii's pollinators could recognise a hybrid or polyploid plant and maintain the same pollination rate as the true species.

However, even if the pollinators do recognise a hybridised or tetraploid lindenii, it begs the question what exactly are you trying to save? Is a hybrid or tetraploid population still the same as the original species or does it further threaten the conservation status of the original species? It might be worth a quick trip to Google to read up on the conservation of the Australian dingo.

Last edited by Andrew; 11-21-2013 at 05:35 AM..
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