Overwatering issues with s/h?

[AnonYMouse]

Firstly, your plant looks like some of mine did initially in S/H. I expected that, it has been stated countless times that roots need to grow into their environment (or something like that. However stated, I got it). In my experience, the root loss is not any new ones. It takes a lot of faith and hand wringing while new roots grows.

2ndly, no one will say 1" of water for you. We don't know without having the plant and pot in our own hands; putting the LECA in, jiggling the LECA between the roots, watering to see where water wicks up to, etc.

Since none of us, so far, are familiar with this pot system, can you contact the manufacturer or vendor?

Or are you actually trying what some have coined as "water culture"?

---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------

One other point, if you are not using a heat mat, you should consider it.

[estación seca]

The idea of S/H is that a reservoir in the bottom of the container allows water to wick up through the medium and keep the roots moist while well-aerated.

The standard method has holes approximately an inch / 2.5cm from the bottom of the pot, providing a reservoir that evaporates faster or slower based on how much water the plant uses, the ambient temperature and humidity. The reservoir could be shallower or deeper depending on where the holes are drilled.

At each watering with the standard method the grower is supposed to fill the container completely, displacing all the air. This flush also carries off excess dissolved minerals in the medium. When the excess water drains out the bottom holes new air is drawn into the spaces between medium particles and excess salts are removed. The whole-pot flush is a critical part of the S/H method.

Watering with the standard S/H method can be done as often or as seldom as one likes, so long as the reservoir does not go dry. It can be done fifty times a day if you like.

Watering S/H can be done at the sink if water drainage would be a problem, and the pot carried back where it belongs after it has drained.

I can't figure out what problem the double-pot method is supposed to solve. I'm still not clear what you're doing. It seems you are periodically adding water to bring some measuring device up to a certain level. This doesn't displace all the air in the pot and doesn't flush out the salts in the container. Salts will build up and plants will suffer from excess salts in the medium.

The level of water in the container isn't important. There's no need for a device to tell the level of the water. The reservoir depth is controlled by where the holes are placed in the container, not by how much water is added to a closed container.

So I'm still trying to figure out the point of the two-pot method with the water level measuring device.

[AnonYMouse]

I actually do use two pots; one pot has the plant and LECA, the other an outer reservoir pot/pan/cup/bowl. I played with water levels to see wicking height and just eyeball when watering.

I admit I don't flush every watering. I am better about it in the warmer months when I fertilize more and the evaporation is greater.



The roots at the very bottom, they grew into the reservoir. They didn't exist when I potted these up. (FWIW, the left is in a 10 oz solo cup and the right is a nested 16 oz plastic beakers set up.)

[Tony Meola]

I have the same two pot system. I have found, and depending on the plant the best place to bring the gauge up to is mid way between Optimum and Minimum. The nest thing is, do not top up the water every couple of days. In fact it is best to actually let the water almost if not totally evaporate. I usually bring mine up when the pot actually dries or is about dry.

I usually flush everything at that point. Depending on the time of year, and if you have heat running in the house, I find that I can go from a week to two weeks between watering. Some plants seem to drink more water than others.

I have also found that they adapt to the pots when they are transplanted from March through August here in NJ.

If I purchase a plant over the winter, I wait until spring before I move into Semi Hydro.

Then there are some plants that just don't seem to like the move at all.

I hope this helps.

[Ray]

I, too, am very familiar with those. All of my tropical houseplants are growing in them. None of my orchids, because they tend to be too shallow for my liking, and can easily lead to root drowning.

SJ - put only enough water in them to cause the floats in the gauges to just budge, forget the "rate of water loss" aspect, and start dumping/flushing/refilling on a regular basis. If they are empty when you do, then you need to shorten the cycle time. If they are still full of liquid when you dump them, that's fine; it does not mean you need to wait longer. Don't forget that while the moist LECA and reservoir are the source of water and nutrients to the plant, they are also the cesspool into which it dumps its wastes, so need to be flushed.

[Ray]

Let me add that the LECA looks small for orchids. I recommend stuff at least 8 or 10-16 mm.

[smokinjoe1952]

I will start doing what Ray suggests regarding watering. Also, that pic was not my set-up. I am using Prime Agra.

1. Right now I have been dumping every 2 weeks and flushing at the sink once a month.

Is that adequate?

2. The reason I chose this system is when I want somebody else to care for the plants for several weeks to months. Just fill to a level on the gauge rather than taking to the sink and flushing.

3. I am not using the opaque white outer pot you see in the pic, but rather clear flimsy saucers that are several inches high. When blooming, I transfer both saucer and inner pot to a ceramic orchid pot for display.

4. Ray's comment that these pots may be a little too shallow makes sense, and something I had not thought about.

5. I am using a heat pad for the newly re-potted plants for maybe 5 weeks, then I turn it off.

6. Anon - You talked about roots needing to acclimate to s/h which I was aware of, but are you saying the plant in the pic might be typical after being re-potted into s/h last June? Seems like it should have acclimated and grown all new roots in 8 months time. Looking for what your experience has been with "time to acclimate, and grow all new roots"

Thanks everyone for the time and sharing of expertise on this.

Smokinjoe

PS - I might also add that my oncidiums, cattleyas, phaphs and phrags seem to be doing much better than my 4-5 Phals in the 2 pot system. However, I am most likely over watering them too.

---------- Post added at 10:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

I should also add that I use distilled water for watering, while I use tap water for flushing. I do use fert. made for pure water. Because of using distilled, I thought that the dump at 2 weeks and flush at 4 weeks would be fine.

That may or may not change your thinking on my dump/flush schedule.

-Smokinjoe

---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 AM ----------

Anon,

Looking at your pics, it seems like you are doing exactly what I am doing without the water gauges. That may be the key. Just eyeball the water height!! (as Ray sugests)

[smokinjoe1952]

Here are a couple pics of my current set-up. The top shelf is for the higher light plants, while the bottom is for lower light plants. There is a dimmable LED strip for each shelf. The closeup of the Catt, shows good aerial root growth, but I have no idea how the LECA roots are doing.

[smokinjoe1952]

Tony,

Sounds like good advice. I will try what you and Ray suggest regarding watering. The only downside is that I wanted to water ALL the plants at the same time. This method seems more single plant oriented as you need to watch the water decline to almost dry. Do you water one plant at a time as they need it?

[AnonYMouse]

The smaller one (a hybrid), I've had ~10 months and it took to SH easily. The larger one (species) I've had a few years. I lost a couple of NoIDs in my first attemps. And I have a couple (a species and a hybrid) not as robust (both more than a year in S/H).

Along with the usual variables, I think plant genetics count.

Are you using any seaweed/rooting supplements?

I should clarify that these examples are for Phals. I've S/H'ed other alliances as well. I think Catt alliances with their plump pbulbs did the best.