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  #1  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:45 PM
emmajs243 emmajs243 is offline
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Orchid Taxonomy, what is what?
Default Orchid Taxonomy, what is what?

Ok guys Orchid taxonomy....I know, kinda a huge question, but what is what? By this I mean like starting at "Orchid" (I know not the scientific name) this is what? The genus, species, genre....? I am pretty positive it isn't none of the examples I just listed but just so you understand what I am asking? And then what comes after that? And after that? So on so forth?

Like for cattleya, this is the species? Then there are groups like cattleya trianaei is this on the same level of classification as a cattleya or is it a sub group of cattleya? Same thing for groups Like Potinara (I know it now has a new name but never can remember the new one) is pot. On the same level as Cattleya within the taxonomy tree or is if a subgroup? And then there are lots of cattleya trianaei but some are 'A.C. Burrage' some are 'YYYYYYY' what Is up with this?

And then with hybrids, they don't have an exact 'XXXX' name, why is that? Can they ever come to have an exact 'XXXX' name?

I wish you could buy like a big chart from AOS every year that has the Orchid taxonomy tree updated and taken down to a point for a specific group of orchids, like Cattleyas have a chart, Dendrobiums, so on so on. That would be SO helpful and something I feel like tons of people would buy because Orchid taxonomy is a nightmare To begin with but then they continuously are making changes that make it so
much more confusing!

If anyone knows of good articles that breaks down the taxonomy I am more then willing to just read those. I know this is a huge question but I'll take any help I can get!
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2019, 05:33 AM
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Bulbopedilum Bulbopedilum is offline
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Taxonomic ranks (Phalaenopsis amabilis as an example):
Kingdom: Plantae
Clade: Angiosperms (Flowering plants)
Clade: Monocots (Seed embryos have 1 cotyledon, or starting leaf)
Order: Asparagales
Family: Orchidaceae (Orchids)
Subfamily: Epidendroideae
Genus: Phalaenopsis <-- First part of the latin name
Species: Amabilis <-- Second part of the latin name

Although some species have varieties, for example:
Dendrobium superbum var. alba
Genus: Dendrobium
Species: Superbum
Variety: Alba (white flowers)

As for the second part of your question, and Im not sure if I am correct, you can give "nicknames" for any hybrids or cultivars that you make and register those names as official names, for example Dendrobium Burana Gold is a hybrid of Dendrobium Chaisri Gold and Dendrobium Thongchai Gold, which are themselves hybrids. You can find the ancestry of a specific hybrid by using orchidroots:
OrchidRoots

I dont know what you mean by "exact XXXXXX name."
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Ok I don't know what to put here...
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:46 AM
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I think maybe you're referring to a cultivar epithet.

When breeding, genetics results in a variety of offspring. All of the offspring have the exact same Genus species or Genus Hybrid name, but there may be specific plants within that offspring population that have unique characteristics, so growers may attach a "cultivated variety" or "cultivar" name to it, separating it from its siblings. That is designated in single quotes - Vanda My Michele 'Lavender Beauty', for example. "My Michele" is a cross I registered of Vanda Rothschildiana x Vanda Erane, and that applies to each and every plant of the cross or its reciprocal Vanda Erane x Vanda Rothschildiana, but 'Lavender Beauty' is a specific plant I kept.

I think maybe of you looked at nomenclature a bit, it might help.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:42 PM
emmajs243 emmajs243 is offline
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Saka! Thank you so much! EXTREMELY helpful!! The tip on orchid roots is awesome! I figured websites like this had to exist, I just haven't known exactly where to find them so this is SO helpful!

And Ray, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking of! Ok so that must be why I only see a cultivar name if I am viewing mericlones because they are referencing a specific plant they are cloned from!? Totally learned something new! It makes sense! Especially since often awards will be listed after the cultivar name!

This all makes SO much more sense and given me a better understanding for what I am buying!

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

....So....Ray, or anyone, I am reading up on nomenclature from your website...can anyone bloom their unnamed hybrid (just referred to as 'parent a X parent b") and register it if someone else hasn't yet? Same thing with giving a cultivar name...I wouldn't think they would just let anyone give their plant a cultivar name or else their would be millions probably right? Or can anyone give their orchid a cultivar name and there are millions out there?

Last edited by emmajs243; 01-02-2019 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmajs243 View Post
Saka! Thank you so much! EXTREMELY helpful!! The tip on orchid roots is awesome! I figured websites like this had to exist, I just haven't known exactly where to find them so this is SO helpful!

And Ray, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking of! Ok so that must be why I only see a cultivar name if I am viewing mericlones because they are referencing a specific plant they are cloned from!? Totally learned something new! It makes sense! Especially since often awards will be listed after the cultivar name!

This all makes SO much more sense and given me a better understanding for what I am buying!

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

....So....Ray, or anyone, I am reading up on nomenclature from your website...can anyone bloom their unnamed hybrid (just referred to as 'parent a X parent b") and register it if someone else hasn't yet? Same thing with giving a cultivar name...I wouldn't think they would just let anyone give their plant a cultivar name or else their would be millions probably right? Or can anyone give their orchid a cultivar name and there are millions out there?
The first person to flower a given unnamed hybrid can register it, but it's considered very poor taste to do so unless you are the originator of the cross or have obtained permission from the originator (i.e. the person who created the hybrid).

Cultivar names aren't registered unless the plant is awarded. I'm actually not sure about this, but presumably you can't use the same cultivar name for an award on a given hybrid if there's already an awarded plant of that hybrid with the same cultivar name. Though it is possible to take an awarded plant in for judging and get a higher award on it (say it was originally an HCC but it blooms again with better quality, you can sometimes get it upgraded to an AM or FCC).

Outside of the context of awards, yes, anybody can give any plant any cultivar name they want. It's not registered or official, so you're free to do as you please. It would be poor taste to reuse a naming convention used by another breeder, but there's nothing really stopping you either.
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:29 PM
emmajs243 emmajs243 is offline
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That makes sense! I have heard some say things like, "ya I am a little disappointed, I was planning on blooming this and registering it but the originator beat me to it" so that's why I was wondering about it!

I do agree however that if you are the creator of the hybrid you should have the first option to register it or elect someone else to register it and otherwise anyone else can. Although this isn't an official rule, I will most likely make it my rule! I agree that it just doesn't seem right registering someone else's creation!

Thanks for clarifying....again!...MyHappyRotter!

Last edited by emmajs243; 01-02-2019 at 07:31 PM..
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Old 01-03-2019, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmajs243 View Post
...can anyone bloom their unnamed hybrid (just referred to as 'parent a X parent b") and register it if someone else hasn't yet? Same thing with giving a cultivar name...I wouldn't think they would just let anyone give their plant a cultivar name or else their would be millions probably right? Or can anyone give their orchid a cultivar name and there are millions out there?
The first person to bloom a new hybrid was originally intended to be the one who registered it, but now pretty much anyone can, but must get permission from the person who made the cross, the "originator". If that person is deceased or you have reasonably tried to identify them and cannot, it may be registered as "O/U" - originator unknown.

Cultivar epithets are not registered, per se, but if the plant has been awarded, one must be assigned to it and it is then officially recorded. There is nothing to stop you from assigning your own, but it is unethical to change one that has already been assigned.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:24 AM
emmajs243 emmajs243 is offline
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That makes sense! Thanks Ray! Definitely have learned so much!
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:31 PM
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One picky little addendum to Bulbipedilulm's excellent explanation of the hierarchy... Species names should be lower case (like Phalaenopsis amabilis or Dendrobium superbum)... sometimes it is necessary to argue with your software, autocorrect keeps trying to capitalize things that shouldn't be. Hybrid grex names are capitalized. If label is correct it makes it easy to spot species vs. hybrids. However, even vendors who know better get sloppy.

---------- Post added at 11:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

And just to be pickier... I think that for species, color forms should be forma (abbreviated f. or fma.) rather than variety (var.) , where var. refers to variations that reflect populations in different localities that have small differences. This is really inconsistently applied. Variety (var.) segues into subspecies (ssp.) where the variation in different localities is larger but not enough to define a separate species. This is an area of scholarly debate (where to draw the line between a subspecies and a new species) and may be somewhat fluid until there is consensus on one or the other.
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:08 PM
emmajs243 emmajs243 is offline
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ROBERTA!!!!! Long time no see a comment from you! Oh that is so helpful! I have been trying to figure out what all these abbreviations mean in orchids names! I knew the capitalization rules BUT its a really helpful tip to know that species are the lower case so you can spot them easily!

But ya, right!? These science guys did an awesome job with this question! Couldn't of asked for a better explanation! Plus! Now I know what all these crazy abbreviations are for!
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