Natural pollination...?

[Jo Ann]

Just a hypothetical question…with the way orchids have been extremely hybridized is it possible that any of these hybrids could ever be returned to the wild? I was thinking on this the other day that in there natural environment each orchid species depends on a certain insect or animal to pollinate it. With all the cross breeding does it make finding a natural pollinator impossible? Has anybody here ever had any of your orchids cross breed naturally on there own?

[Tindomul]

Not impossible. It all depends on the degree of change of the flower structure. Especially the parts that allow for pollinators to land and or go in to come into contact with the pollinia and or nectar the flower offers. If the difference is only in color of scent shape of anything other than the pollinarium or labellum, then I don't see there being a problem with successful pollination occuring in the wild. So long as the hybrids are introduced into the stomping grounds of the parents. Also, many hybrids occur in nature all the time, so that should also answer your question.

[Jo Ann]

Thank-you Tindomul1of9 for taking time to give me a little feed back on my thoughts....

[maitaman]

There are quite a few natural hybrids here. C. guatemalensis is an example, that occur where both aurantiaca and skinnerii grow in the same area.

[kavanaru]

Originally Posted by Tindomul

Not impossible. It all depends on the degree of change of the flower structure. Especially the parts that allow for pollinators to land and or go in to come into contact with the pollinia and or nectar the flower offers. If the difference is only in color of scent shape of anything other than the pollinarium or labellum, then I don't see there being a problem with successful pollination occuring in the wild. So long as the hybrids are introduced into the stomping grounds of the parents. Also, many hybrids occur in nature all the time, so that should also answer your question.

the issue is a bit more complicated... you not only need to have a reproductive structure not much different than the ones from the parents (and therefore matching the requirements for one of the natural pollinators), but also, in many cases, having the right scent and the right timing. In the evolution of the reproductive association between orchids and insects (and note that I am not speaking about co-evolution, which is a very complicated/discussed section of the evolution and very difficult to prove) many chids atract a certain species of insect (mainly males!) by imitating particular odours or combinations of them (could be, female pheromones, or
male pheromone precursors - needed by the males in order to produce their own pheromones). If the hybrid does not have the right scent, or it has it but during the wrong time of the year (remember that many hybrids bloom in a different time als their parents) or of the day (some chids parents are scented during the morning and their hybrids during the afternoon or viceversa) not a single insect of the right species will visit the flower. Furthermore, if for this particular insect species, optic is an important signal, changing the colour of the flower will also be an obstacle for pollination.

This all does not mean it is impossible for hybrids to return to the wild... we have seen some "Natural Hybrids" that occur in the wild, and some of them are even able to reproduce (having several hybrid plants in the same are does not mean, they are the kids of hybrid chids! They can all be F1 generations!), but this is more the exception than the rule...

[maitaman]

Orchid genetics are extremely complicated. They are one of the VERY few things that can be crossed inter-specially, inter-generically - and in one case I've studied (Cym. X Ctsdm.) inter-tribally. Plants with very different pollinators can be grown touching and a breeze can cross them. This is extremely rare and usually pointless as they die out. Speaking of millions of years, if it only happened once per decade, there will be hundreds of thousand of such crosses in the wilds.
When you have some of the multi-generic hybrids (some of the -aras have many genera included) that are usually viable, the result becomes the largest classification known. Even a usually sterile cross will often have one or two that are viable.

[Orchidaholic]

I would think the bigger question would be... Would placing a man-made hybrid into the wild somehow upset the natural balance? Would it possibly be more proliferous and encroach on a natives domain? I think these ?'s would take precedence over if it could perpetuate itself. I live in an area where there is an abundance of Sphynx moths and have watched them and bees/hornets cross my species and hybrids sitting on my font porch.

[luckygrower]

orchidaholic,
I'm curious, have any of these natural crosses produced any seed pods and if so have you tried to germinate them?

[Tindomul]

Originally Posted by Orchidaholic

I would think the bigger question would be... Would placing a man-made hybrid into the wild somehow upset the natural balance? Would it possibly be more proliferous and encroach on a natives domain? I think these ?'s would take precedence over if it could perpetuate itself. I live in an area where there is an abundance of Sphynx moths and have watched them and bees/hornets cross my species and hybrids sitting on my font porch.

Most man made hybrids have characterisitics that make them desirable to us, but will in the long run hurt the plant in the wild. I doubt that your scenario would ever happen. Unless all the Home Depot and Loews stores decided to mount all their Orchids (hybrids and all) in a jungle (or appropriate environment). Then in that case, yea maybe a few would do really well and compete successfully with the already established plants.
Another factor you need to consider is that if this "natural habitat" in your scenario is completely untouched by man, and is not left in a vulnerable state due to some kind of natural disaster, the existing plant community should be resistant to invaders.

[Orchidaholic]

Luckygrower. Yes pods were formed, a few are still ripening(but very ready for green pod sowing) and I do have viable seeds from other crosses. One I think was a self cross on my Encyclia belizensis, although there were other catts and epis in bloom too so I'm not 100%. That's the only bad thing about nature taking its course... I cant tag and document what went where so unless they were self X, I can never register a hybrid made .I plan on sowing the seed when it warms up. I gotta get some tropicals outa the house for flask space.