Selfings of awarded cultivars?

[Orchidreamer]

Say you have a Cattleya, like Cattleya percivaliana 'Summit' FCC/AOS with excellent form, shape, and size. Then you create a selfing (Cattleya percivaliana 'Summit' x self). Will the results of the selfing provide generally better flowers than a "regular cross"? A "regular cross," as I'm defining it here, is just a random C. percivaliana without an award-winning cultivar name x another random C. percivaliana without an award-winning cultivar name.

The reason I'm asking is that I thought I bought a clone of an award-winning cultivar, but instead I received a selfing of that cultivar. Since genes shuffle around anytime seeds are created, I assume a selfing would be a bit of a gamble?

[trdyl]

I am sorry to hear this happened to you. I have had it happen to me as well more than once. It is a gamble indeed. When you self a good one the chances of getting good offspring are better, but it is still a gamble.

[littlefrog]

Every cross is a gamble. You increase your odds of good results if you use good parents. Usually. A selfing of a good clone is going to give you higher odds of good results than crossing two 'mediocre' clones. But it isn't a guarantee.

Sometimes very very good things happen when you use a less than spectacular parent as part of a cross, too.

[dounoharm]

when you buy a seedling plant you take your chances....if you want the exact same plant as a certain plant, you buy a clone or 'mericlone'....also, two seedling plants from the same flask can end up worlds apart as far as looks go...its all a gamble really, gl

[glengary54]

Clones are not necessarily a safer choice anymore. There have been so many mutations coming out of the cloning labs that there really is no guarantee that you will get a clone that is an exact duplicate of the original plant.

[Magnus A]

To simplify a complex issue.

Breading is selecting through generation and what you do is discard everything that express "bad" characteristics. Breading though, depend on a healthy gene pool and if you self polination you degrade the gene pool as mutations are accumilated. All kind of strange things can happen to offspring when inbreaded...

The same apply for humans as you do not bread with your sister or brother due to genetic defects and deseases.

[Arenalbotanicalgarden]

Originally Posted by Magnus A

To simplify a complex issue.

Breading is selecting through generation and what you do is discard everything that express "bad" characteristics. Breading though, depend on a healthy gene pool and if you self polination you degrade the gene pool as mutations are accumilated. All kind of strange things can happen to offspring when inbreaded...

The same apply for humans as you do not bread with your sister or brother due to genetic defects and deseases.

You've never been to West Virginia !
Orchids....special orchids, are not unlike Japanese Koi, good dogs and horses or anything else.Patience is the key.
Cross two beauties, fill the flasks and sit back and wait.
The gem will possibly be there and the other junk can go to Home Depot

[Rowangreen]

Actually 'good dogs' are a very good ilustration of the dangers of inbreeding. There's some breeds where you basically can't get a healthy dog now, and that includes the ones winning shows.

Inbreeding will increase the chance of getting the genes you want passed on. But it will also increase the chance of getting bad recessive genes in a double dose and therefore having problems. At least with orchids there's not the welfare issues that results in for animals.

[Arenalbotanicalgarden]

Originally Posted by Rowangreen

Actually 'good dogs' are a very good ilustration of the dangers of inbreeding. There's some breeds where you basically can't get a healthy dog now, and that includes the ones winning shows.

Inbreeding will increase the chance of getting the genes you want passed on. But it will also increase the chance of getting bad recessive genes in a double dose and therefore having problems. At least with orchids there's not the welfare issues that results in for animals.

Well. You "can", but like everything else you have to study and break out the wallet( in a BIG WAY) .
Quality, in this era, is very hard to attain......all things included.From a washing machine or Chef's knife, to a quarter horse. It's just business.

[Rowangreen]

With dogs study can help in some cases, but money is not going to ensure a healthy dog.

Documentary - BBC - Pedigree Dogs Exposed Video by bordercollie19 - Myspace Video

By the way, this was put out several years ago. The Kennel Club has made some good moves. They've brought in vet checks at Crufts which led to several top dogs being disqualified this year. On the other hand the latest I've heard on the neurological problem in Cavaliers is that basically every one of them has the deformity, and about 70% are symptomatic. Some people are suggesting that several breeds, including Cavaliers, should be considered unaceptable to breed and allowed to go extinct.

Of course it may well be that inbreeding isn't such an issue with orchids. It certainly isn't such a welfare issue. It may be that seed with genetic problems doesn't germinate or grow and tends to get weeded out. Something that needs to be watched for though, and keeping genetic diversity as high as possible is always a good idea.