Variegated Phal - Orchid Board

kinknstein · #1 10-27-2009, 11:24 AM

Hi All
I was just curious, I have a variegated Phal, Phal Sogo Vivien 'Golden Vivien'. I was just curious if I were to cross this to a regular green leaf phal if the variegation will come through in the offspring? Has anyone tried this?
Would some come out variegated while others may not?

trdyl · #2 10-27-2009, 02:27 PM

The genes that cause the variegated leaf are recessive. In order to get variegated offspring you would need to breed it to another variegated Phal. If you bred it to Phal with a regular green leaf the offspring would not be variegated.

Undergrounder · #3 10-27-2009, 02:27 PM

Nope variegated leaves is not a heritable trait in Phals, sorry

trdyl · #4 10-27-2009, 02:32 PM

I stand corrected. Looks like my source was wrong. Thanks Undergrounder.

Bird Song Farm · #5 10-27-2009, 02:35 PM

I *think* Undergrounder is agreeing with you Ted...
Al

Undergrounder · #6 10-27-2009, 02:51 PM

Sorry Ted and I posted at the same time so i didn't see Ted's post when i made mine, i didn't mean it to come across as if i was abruptly disagreeing, you probably know more about it than i do.

I was under the impression it was a mutation that wasn't heritable because it didn't effect the reproductive cells, but i can't cite a source..

So don't take my word for it, maybe Ted can shed some light.

Edit: If it was a recessive trait wouldn't you still expect some of the cross with a plain green Phal. to be variegated? I found this link which suggests its inheritable, but i don't really know more than that:

http://chat.phalaenopsis.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1436

trdyl · #7 10-27-2009, 03:19 PM

Undergrounder, I could swear that I saw a population of seed grown variegated Phal aphrodite but I can not find any references to it now. The only one's I am coming across are clones. I could very well be wrong about it being a inheritable trait.

camille1585 · #8 10-28-2009, 05:28 AM

It depends where the mutation took place. If it's an intragenetic mutation (within a gene) then it does show recessive inheritance, meaning you need to cross it to another recessive plant (variegated) to be sure to have offspring with the trait. But normally (as variegation needs 2 recessive alleles) if you cross it to a green plant carrying one recessive allele for variegation, you will get some variegated offspring. The trouble is determining whether the green plant carries the gene or not! That would be hard to know without making a linkage map of the genetic markers in the plant.

If the mutation is chimeric, then breeding the plant will result in 100% of progeny not being true to type. You can't breed chimeras. Chimerism means that a plant has 2 genetically distinct types of tissue. What's important to know is that plants have 3 cell layers. Epidermis cells (color) are L1, germ cells (gametes) are L2 and finally core tissue and roots are L3. In order for a mutation leading to variegation to be transmittable to offspring, it needs to be in the L2 layer as well as the L1. However most of the time chimeric mutations remain periclinal, meaning that only one cell layer is completely mutated, usually L1 for color factors. I think meristem culture is the only way to multiply these plants. Some examples of chimeric plants are mother in law's tongue, and also thornless blackberry plants.

Yet another cause for variegation is infection by a non pathogenic virus. The only thing the virus does to the plant is modify the color! Breeding these plants is successful if the virus is also transmissible via seed. Tissue culture (not meristem propagation) will also transmit it).

I hope that helps explain things from a genetic point of view.

Undergrounder · #9 10-28-2009, 05:34 AM

Thanks Camille!! Great post... i hope i can pick your brain about plant genetics and hybridization some day..

By the way i happened to be in the library today looking for plant hybridization books. I could only find a few very dry, stupifyingly boring books (Ballard, 1999 - Principles of Plant Breeding was one), do you have any good references or books you can recommend?

camille1585 · #10 10-28-2009, 06:11 AM

The textbook I used last year was called 'Principles of Plant Genetics and Breeding' by George Acquaah from 2006. It's easy to read but it's not at all for the hobby breeder. It's really axed towards future pro breeders presenting both classical and molecular breeding tools, as well as different breeding schemes based on the type of plant you are dealing with.

If you are interested, I have all the powerpoint presentations from my lectures last year. There are lectures on breeding allogamous, autogamous, asexually progagated and hybrid crops, on mutation breeding, on breeding for quality traits, as well as molecular approaches to crop improvement and also selection methods.... Just to name a few!

Breeding is no longer my specialization, I quickly changed over to phytopathology and entomology. My main area of interest is plant-insect interactions, on an ecological and molecular level. My Masters major thesis is in on cabbage-aphid-caterpillar interactions, and I'm currently in discussion with Cornell U to do my minor thesis there, in the same domain. I find playing with insects to be way funner than plant breeding!