First Pollination Experiment & Question

[Royal]

Hey shadytrake,

I just wanted to jump in here. This is an interesting thread. You're asking logical questions and King is giving you good answers. I just wanted to add my two cents.

First a commentary on the sib cross vs. out cross vs. self question. There are a few broad "directions" in breeding. I think you are in category three.

One is selective or line breeding. This is when desireable traits are selected in hopes that the offspring display this accentuated trait. This is usually achieved through sibling crosses or by selfing. The Dracula example King gave is a good one. Most likely (total guess) the two cultivars 'Clownface' and 'Smiley' have desireable color or markings. Crossing the two would increase the odds of getting progeny with these colors or markings. So would selfing one or the other. This is how we have the super large, flat, colorful species that don't really resemble wild populations anymore.

A second goal would be to increase the genetic diversity in progeny. This would obviously be accomplished by outcrossing. In nature, this is how things usually get done, but nature isn't winning any FCC's. If you want something a little different or less predictable, go with an outcross, but GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). You don't want to dilute the pedigree of an awared plant by crossing it to a wild collected species - or maybe you do?

The third is where most of us start - hahazzard crossing just for the sake of crossing. I'm not being critical, believe me, we all have to start somewhere. I just want to warn against this. I know it's exciting, but be intentional. You are on the right track when thinking about your ideal red. Start with your idealized goal - then work back from there to figure out what stud plants you need. You may even need to make or re-make stud plants to get to where you really want to be. Playing around with toothpicks is really fun at first, but it is seriously a long term deal. 5 years down the road you will thank me for encouraging you to think hard about what direction you want to go.

[Royal]

Originally Posted by shadytrake

I have 3 NBS Phaiocalanthe Kryptonite 'Blood Bath' AM/AOS.

I bought 3 of these because I wanted to enter the best bloom for AOS judging at some point in the future.

If the tags are right, they're clones - all identical. Make sure the tags don't have " x self " at the end. Many times these awarded plants are selfed, assuring quality seedlings. This would be an example of line breeding. See, selfing isn't always bad. If these are x self seedlings, you might be able to show all three!

[shadytrake]

Originally Posted by RoyalOrchids

Hey shadytrake,

The third is where most of us start - hahazzard crossing just for the sake of crossing. I'm not being critical, believe me, we all have to start somewhere. I just want to warn against this. I know it's exciting, but be intentional. You are on the right track when thinking about your ideal red. Start with your idealized goal - then work back from there to figure out what stud plants you need. You may even need to make or re-make stud plants to get to where you really want to be. Playing around with toothpicks is really fun at first, but it is seriously a long term deal. 5 years down the road you will thank me for encouraging you to think hard about what direction you want to go.

Thanks for your feedback. Right now I'm kind of just interested to see if I actually get a seed pod. IF I do get one, I'm not even sure that I will try to send it out to be flasked. I'm not interested in making a mass amount of plants for future "selling" or anything like that. I'm really just doing this for myself. My own personal petrie dish so to speak.

I do have a couple of plants that I am interested in trying, one of them being the Haraella. I'm just not sure what will even have a chance of taking.

As for the Phaiocalanthes, I don't see any x self at the end of the name so I guess they are clones. When I put them into s/h, I did notice that the quality of the moss and roots was TOP NOTCH. Probably the best I have seen.

[Royal]

Originally Posted by shadytrake

Thanks for your feedback. Right now I'm kind of just interested to see if I actually get a seed pod. IF I do get one, I'm not even sure that I will try to send it out to be flasked. I'm not interested in making a mass amount of plants for future "selling" or anything like that. I'm really just doing this for myself. My own personal petrie dish so to speak.

I completely understand. I never saw myself making and flasking my own hybrids either - but this is how it starts!

You can always donate seed to the Orchid Seedbank Project. (as long as it's a species)

[shadytrake]

Okay the Den aggregatum (lindleyi) blooms curled up and fell off. Where does the seed pod usually form on this chid? The blooms are on a really thin small stem that doesn't look like it would support a pod.

So do you think it failed? I think so.

Here is a picture of a bloom spike.

IOSPE PHOTOS

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Your Den aggregatum did not take.

If you look at the base of the flower where the petals and sepals come together, there's a "stem" that connects the flower to the spike. That "stem" is the ovary.

When the pollination is successful, the flower does not fall off. The ovary swells up over time. Later the seed capsule (seed pod) develops.

From pollination to ripening, it probably would've taken your Den aggregatum at least 3 months. I'm making an approximated guess because I've pollinated Den kingianum before, and this is how long it took for the pods to burst.

[shadytrake]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Your Den aggregatum did not take.

If you look at the base of the flower where the petals and sepals come together, there's a "stem" that connects the flower to the spike. That "stem" is the ovary.

Bummer. Oh well, it has several other flowers and spikes. I can try again. I need to research the pollen plant better though.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Out of curiosity, do you know where the stigmatic opening is and what the pollina (not the anther cap) look like?

If you haven't already checked it out, try looking at Troy Meyer's website. There is an article about how to pollinate orchids with photos.

I know when I first started thinking about pollinating orchids, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know where all the plant parts were and what they looked like.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Remember also, some orchids don't self pollinate.

[shadytrake]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Out of curiosity, do you know where the stigmatic opening is and what the pollina (not the anther cap) look like?

Oh yes I know where the parts are. I had a good live demo by a breeder. I got to sit right next to him while he pollinated several chids.

He gave me several tips like getting the stigma fluid on the tip of the skewer so the pollen sticks.

Thanks.