Flasks (Project 15 - Spring 2013)
 

Here's where you can talk about your flasks once you've got them! Before starting please 'report' to the sign up thread. You'll find souces for flasks there too. It's suggested people get Phals if possible, but it's not essential: any flask will do.

If anyone's got good links about deflasking, please post them in this thread. Thanks!

Deflasking resources:
Orchid Flasks, Plus Deflasking (I like his low tech propagators!)
Deflasking and Compotting (NB I have been told some flask mediums turn hard out of flask so leaving them in is not an option... unfortunately I don't know which!)

What We've Got:

Shadytrake
Phal. Bellina (coerulea x sib) (purple) x coerulea x sib
Phal Luedde-Violacea (violacea ‘Magnificent’ x lueddemanniana ‘Woodlawn’)
Phal schilleriana
(And several others)

Call_Me_Bob
Phal. Bellina (coerulea x sib) (purple) x coerulea x sib

JaneEyre
Phal Luedde-Violacea (violacea ‘Magnificent’ x lueddemanniana ‘Woodlawn’)

Bballr4567
Phal. shilleriana
Phal Buena Jewel x Dragon Tree Eagle

RebeccaBC
Blc. Liu's Joyance 'Golden Pin' x Lc. Mari's Love 'Blossoming' Seedling from Orchid Society deflasking demo

Rowangreen
Phal ambioensis
Den cyanocentrum

Sweetjblue
Phal LD's Bear Queen 'Limeade' x OrchidKonnection Passion 'OK'

Orchidsarefun
Bulbo Dentiferum

Zxyqu
Phal LD’s Bear Queen (DTE x bellina)
Phal Buena Jewel x Dragon Tree Eagle

Island Girl
#1 Phal speciosa 'Blue' x maculata 'Orange'
#2 Phal (Ho's Green Double- micholitz 'Peter Lin' HCC/AOS x maculata f. flava 'Orange')


Escualida
Phal Nobby's Little Candy X Formosa Cranberry 'Brian'

Billc
Waiting to hear from Woodstream (good luck!)


I'll try and add more flasks to this list as people post... so don't be shy! And try and keep to 2 max for the project LOL

Hi All,

Here is the link to compotting from Meyers.

https://lab.troymeyers.com/flasking/...Flaskling-Care

Well I was planning on ordering some flasks for spring anyway so here is what I have coming:

Phal. schilleriana 'Fragrant Butterfly-sport' X self - will be scented. I got the last one. Yay!

Phal. bellina (coerulea X sib) (purple) X coerulea X sib (project flask - split with Call_Me_Bob).

Phal violacea var bowringiana coerulea Bredren's Blue Boy x self. 1 plant in flask. 5” leaf span.

Paraphalaenopsis denevi. 10 plants in each flask, 1" to 1.5" tall.

Paraphalaenopsis laycockyi. 5 plants in flask, 1" to 1.5" tall.

Paraphalaenopsis serpentilingua. 10 plants in each flask, 1.5" tall.

C. velutina. 10 plants in flask, 1.5" tall.

Phalaenopsis gibbosa 'Olympic' × self - ordered 3/2011 should be ready soon. Yay!

I feel so lucky as I was able to get everything I wanted this year. Good thing I have my pots ready to go. I'm going to be a busy parent very soon.

:babygirl:babyboy:babygirl:babyboy:babygirl
:babygirl:babygirl:babyboy:babygirl:babyboy

:rofl:

Deflasking method used at Orchid Society
 

The flask was wrapped with masking tape to make sure most of the glass was easy to clean up, then it was wrapped in newspaper and/or a towel and the glass was broken. The baby plants were put into a large bowl of fresh water and rinsed off, then laid on paper towel for a bit to dry.

We were each given a small plant, which was potted up loosely in moss and we placed them in ziploc bags, which we had blown air into. Brought it home and left the bag open for a bit, increasing the time by an hour each day. We were told after a week we could take them out, but I left mine in for about two weeks, in my eastern facing window. We were also told to not fertilize for the first month, but I haven't done any fertilizing yet.

If I missed something, anyone from the meeting can fill in the blanks :biggrin:

Wow that's a great list Shady! And thanks for your story Rebecca. Would be great if you add some pictures when you can.

My flask from the show is desparate to be unflasked... just have to find the time! Later hopefully...

Hi All,

I am posting this method of potting in sterilized moss. This is how I will be potting mine.

I just purchased a 16 qt pressure cooker and 4 bags of Better Gro sphagnum moss.

Growing Phals in moss is perfectly fine if you follow a few simple guidelines.

Tom at Stones River Orchids / Nashville, TN was at our last OS meeting just back from Taiwan and he had lots of good information regarding Phals and media.

He's been growing and breeding Phals for about 30 years. One of the biggest "hello" moments he had in discussing media issues with the TWN breeders is that if you have a plant that has been happily growing in one kind of media and you switch, it can set the orchid back for several years and sometimes permanently if the orchid does not "like" the media you choose.

With that said, a lot of his presentation was based around him changing over from a bark mix to straight moss. I know...you probably think he is crazy but he gave specifics. You know how a lot of people say "do this" without giving you the full picture? Well here goes...directly from my mental notes from his presentation.

First of all, he said a lot of folks fail with moss because they over water, over pot, and do not prepare the moss correctly for use.

Moss must be soaked in a sterile like solution (some people pressure cook it to fully sterilize it) but he soaks for 24 hours in Consan Triple Action 20 then rinses the moss and soaks again (i didn't catch if the 2nd soak was in the sterile soln again or in water).

2nd (and this came straight from a TWN breeder)...Phals need the security of being tightly packed in a pot...(I KNOW...it sounds crazy). He carefully chooses a pot slightly bigger than the root system - you can trim off dead roots. He takes the orchid and carefully curls the roots (if necessary) and takes a handfull moss which has been carefully squeezed out and fluffed up and then squeezed again and puts a section around one side of the roots and another section around the other side.

He takes a little moss and puts it in the bottom of the pot (he uses plastic) and carefully shoves...yes he shoved it in the pot.

Now the trick...He packs the moss tightly around the Phal carefully keeping it about 3/4" to 1" below the top of the pot. The moss never comes above 3/4" from the top. This is VERY important.

Once completed, he does NOT water...no water for about a week. He said it is very important for the plant to be secure in the pot to recover from the potting process and watering it is not necessary. There is enough moisture in the moss.

Now he said the next part is critical to the success. When you water, you only fill the pot from the top of the moss to the top of the pot. You DON'T saturate the pot through. Then you LEAVE it ALONE until the next watering...which for him in Middle TN can be 2 or 3 weeks. Also, with the moss he fertilizes much less too (maybe once ever other month only during active growth).

I didn't have a chance to ask him how he monitors the moisture content of the moss, but I imagine that he used to test them (probably with a bamboo stick) and then once he got a system down, he stuck to it.

Anyway, the point of all my rambling is that when you change from one media to another it is important that you consider how far back you will set the orchid.

For example, he said that he is in the process of switching from the bark to the moss and has been for over a year and he definitely noticed that some will need longer to adapt to the new media.

Also as FYI, this does not work if you have an automatic misting system. You absolutely cannot mist the phals in the moss because it messes up the watering schedule. The moss must be allowed to slowly dry out (of course not bone dry) before the next watering.

PART TWO - specifically for de-flasked seedlings. It is imperative that the seedlings slowly acclimate so they can harden off. To do that, our local Phal expert (over 10 AOS awards for Phals) recommends placing the potted seedlings inside transluscent Tupperware and place the lid tightly on for at least a week. Put the tub under the T5 or T8 bulb.

No- you won't get fungus, because the moss is sterile.

After one week pull the lid off and check the moisture if they need water, water. If not lay the lid on top (do not seal it). Leave for one week. Then slowly slide the lid open a quarter at a time.

This method hardens the roots and keeps the humidity up.

Excellent advice from Tom and is basically the same advice I've heard (and followed) from several other growers and hobbyists who use moss and are successful.

Judi

a lot to think about, thanks.

I have noticed 2 ways the Taiwanese pot in moss. One - the way you describe , but in the second way the moss is loosely packed in the pot. Both have that roughly 3/4 space to the top of the pot. However they primarily use those plastic, pliable pots ( maybe that makes a difference ? )....and I ordered some from Taiwan to specifically use. I am trying out the 2nd way in these pots. I have examples of both methods so will soon see which is better for root growth and general health.

As for switching media, I have noticed ( after trying it out too ) that phals have only a slight setback when switching from moss to bark. I have also read to add to Tom's experience that there is a significant setback to switching from bark to moss. I haven't tried that though.

I am getting my bulbo flask on Wed, so I am going to have to decide on what to do with them. My issue is that I have so many seedlings but so few heating mats to accommodate them all.....

SuWEEET! Just got my last order completed for some single orchids and the vendor had 1 flask left (they were discontinuing flasks).

So I just HAD to buy it! It is Phal. Luedde-Violacea (violacea 'Magnificent x lueddemanniana 'Woodlawn')

I'm not sure of the plant count, but if someone wants to split or go in on it...fine with me...or you will force me to keep them all.

I'll be potting mine up into sterilized moss.

Edit to add expected bloom from this cross. This is a picture of the exact same cross from a different flask.

Edit to add - Photo taken by Adrienne Giovino at the Norton Greenhouse in 2012.

This is really interesting, I always wondered how these places were able to keep phals in such tightly packed moss without rotting the roots, now I know it's all about that space at the top. Thanks for the info I'm going to try this with some of my phals now.

I'm envious of that one! I've deflasked tonight, but haven't got time now to post the pics (got to do my quota of writing for my course before heading to bed... OK I admit it, going to do some writing before watching a late night repeat of Game Of Thrones!)

My project flask wasn't what I'd planned... of course, the one's I'd seen online weren't available at the show! In the end I had a choice between some commercial type hybrids, which didn't appeal, gigantica (too big and not keen anyway), equestris (were tiny...) stuartiana (my friend took those... hopefully she's joining the project!) and the one I got, which is ambioenses. (apologies for spelling mistakes... it's too late to look them up!) Not really on my wish list... but it was pretty much wait ages for the equestris or go for the one desperate to be deflasked! Plus I thought it might be easier to rehome extra seedlings!

I've also got a second flask: dendrobium cyanocentrum from Equatorial Plants: been on my wish list for ages and it's a lovely looking flask. I'm going to give it a few weeks though hopefully.

Plus I somehow ended up with a Doritis pulcherimia hybrid, a well-grown max. picta (since I recently killed my two seedlings) and an in-flower phal stuartiania var nobilis, which I wasn't really expecting... I think it was £75 the first day of the show, but it dropped in price considerably for the last day sell off!

I'm jealous about your Den cyanocentrum but I won't be trying any Den flasks anymore. After killing 5 Den flasks, I just don't seem to be able to grow them from seedlings.

I do want to find one of those as a NBS or bigger for my collection.

I would like to see your progress with the Den so please post pics and your process.

Very nice one.... Such a beauty :)

Bummer for me though. She emailed me this morning saying she has this flask left but, I guess you just beat me to it.. I guess I'll keep looking :)



Edit:
Well it looks like the vendor has one more so I am definitely getting that one as well - I just fell in love with that one :)

Can't wait till it arrives.

Thanks for the info on growing phals in moss! I've grown some that way and they do well. There's a second way to do it though! It is how I do most of mine..

That is to pot it tightly enough that the plant doesn't wobble when the pot is moved side to side. And NOT pack it super tight as described above. I water this fully until the moss is SATURATED, I usually sit them in water for about five minutes. And then monitor the moisture levels, then water again once it's appropriate. In my conditions it's usually about two weeks between watering that way.

I like this way better because it saves moss and saves me from panicking over super tight moss. As long as it's tight enough that the plant is stable, that's tight enough for me!

Melissa, how many seedlings are in the Phal. shilleriana flask?

Hi Josh,

Thanh said he would guarantee 15 in the flask but that I should get many more than that.

Hi All,

Here are a couple of photos from my re-pot. The Phal tetraspis 'Olympic' x self were de-flasked last August. The misc. Catt hybrids are just over a year out of flask.

These are in clay pots as we tend to water more in our shadehouse during the spring/summer. I find that plastic keeps some orchids too moist so I use them sparingly.

Wanna share a small compot with me? Like 3-4? PM me if you want so we don't clutter up the thread. :bowing

Shady, where is the gibbosa compot from? Those look good already.

Jarad,

The gibbosa is not ready yet. I've been waiting on it for over a year from Meyers Conservatory. I don't expect that it will get here for this project.

If you are interested in flasks from Meyers, I suggest calling him after the 23rd to find out what he has that is ready. He only makes flasks to reservation which is why they take so long. He might have a few in stock that are ready to go.

Cool, thanks Shady. I have one growing well, but I love the miniature species, so it never hurts to have some extras!

Bulbophyllum Dentiferum
 

darn, my flask missed the mail-sort and I didn't get it today. I had prepared the media - see photos.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/18/ana9ynyn.jpg

I throughly sprayed a shallow container and a ziploc bag with Lysol Spray.
I microwaved seedling mix for the base of the container, in some water to sterilise.


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/18/yga4une6.jpg

I also microwaved the sphag moss because it was a sample pack, no-name brand and it looked green in parts.
I thoroughly rinsed the pot before packing the seedling mix and then a thin layer of sphag moss on top.
I then placed the pot into the rinsed out ziploc bag, leaving it slightly opened.
I used the above methods/processes after reading up on all the different methods mentioned here on OB and elsewhere.

Hopefully I get the seedlings tomorrow. My next worry is to keep the package warm enough, I have to make space on one of my heating mats but its the ambient temp that is the main worry.
I have split out Lycaste and Miltoniopsis compots - without a fungal/bacterial subsequent hassle and without going to the trouble above ! Fingers crossed on this one of much smaller seedlings.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

Mine are on the way too! I am going to sterilize another batch of moss tonight. I cleaned off the shelf where they will be cooking for awhile. I have a T5 light right over it and my Tupperware boxes ready.

the seedlings were in my mailbox ! there are at least 25, many a nice size

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/18/yqedu9ub.jpg

potted them up

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/18/yze4atuj.jpg

bagged them up

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/18/5a7y8egy.jpg

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:47 PM ----------

and I was also just advised that my some of my phal flasks, as well as my zygo flasks, will be ready to compot next month. These are my own crosses.

So the method I used as well as others - please post yours ! - are going to be invaluable in me deciding how to compot these new ones..

What are they? Please post the species and name so that we can see how different types grow.

Bulbophyllum Dentiferum
 

I did, in the title before the photos- but did it again.

Cool. I have that bulbo. Haven't persuaded it to bloom yet though. :)

thats great, so you can give me advice.
First question - do you grow yours warm with high humidity ? ( added humidity )

I need to add more. I grow mine mounted. According to Bill Thoms, water water water. I need more. Here is a picture.

thanks, a great help - I wasn't able to find an illustrative picture like that anywhere.....maybe just as well as I don't like that type, with the looooong rhizome between pbulbs and it not being compact.
Now I have a lot of time to get to like them....:D

Yeah flasks are the ultimate test of patience in orchids, especially some of the Cattleya family plants. Luckily, Phals are only a 2/4 year wait from seed to bloom, so I'll stick with them.

Ok, so here is part one of the project. Wasn't sure it was going to happen, so I went ahead with one flask before the project started. This was a flask I was lucky enough to get from Kingfisher in Canada (I know, be jealous Cody...), and it was packed last Winter. I let it grow until Spring picked up, and I was super pleased with how many plants were in it. Phal LD's Bear Queen (DTE x bellina) is the cross. Attached are the Flask photo, a picture of the ones I chose to deflask and pot up, and another of the smaller seedlings I replated. I know everyone cant replate, but if you can, it's a great way to get 10+ more plants as the tiny ones can be reflasked until they are up to size. Enjoy, this is gonna be a great project.

Cool! If any in my flasks are too small, I'm going to ask my Phal expert friend to replate for me. He has a laminar hood and the experience to do it.

Jealous!!!!!! I have one seedling of LDs bear queen and I want MORE! It's my favorite cross!

Phal schilleriana
 

Got the flasks today. Have to sterilize some more moss as I used all of this batch to pot the schilleriana.

The community pot belongs to my share project partner. I don't pot in compots for myself per the suggestion from the local Phal expert. He said he always pots in singles now so that he doesn't do any damage when re-potting. Also, he said in singles you can re-pot when that plant is ready.

I did not use any chemical wash as I have killed too many seedlings by burning them. Now I use a plain water wash and sterilized moss (pressure cooked).

Here are the pictures. My project buddy will be getting the compot (mailing this weekend or next Thursday - depending on if he wants them to harden off for a week)

How cute is the mottling on the tiny little leaves? Adorable. Thanks for sharing :)

Is there any kind of ventilation in the box?

Blc. Liu's Joyance 'Golden Pin' x Lc. Mari's Love 'Blossoming'
 

K here's the pics of my seedling. When I tried to look up the parents I couldn't find much, so if anyone has any info on it let me know :D

First picture was from a day or two after I brought it home, the second pic is from just a few days ago and hopefully shows the new growth on it. Since I've brought it home it's produced a new leaf and 5 new roots. The roots are going in every different direction possible, made it hard to repot the sucker.

No ventilation for the first week. Then you start opening it. The sterilized moss keeps any mold away.

Sorry I haven't posted about mine yet, and it looks like I'll be offline for a couple of days, so will post pictures after that!

Briefly though... my phal ambioensis flask from Writhlington School was pretty desparate to be unflasked! Great long roots (some going up to the top of a tall flask...), hardly any medium left. There were also some fungus growing, though they seemed to be co-existing fine with the plants!

In preperation I washed pots, propagator and tools first with dishwash, then with 10% bleach solution (not stronger as I've heard it can desicate rather than kill nasties if it's stronger). I also damped down and microwaved some moss. After microwaving I added a bit more de-ionised water with some fert in.

Opened the flask and let it soak in some room temp water for a while, then eased the plants out. It tooks quite a while to get those long roots sorted out! Lucky that phal roots are quite resilient (the paphs I deflasked in October I found had brittle roots... whoops!). Also removed some dead roots and leaves. Didn't use any kind of wash on the seedlings except plain water.

I've ended up with 9 plants of various sizes, with the smallest being pretty microscopic. I don't have facilities to re-plate those, so giving them a go... They are now in two compots in a propogator without heating, over a bed of leca with water in. Running about 20-23 degrees c at the moment and 100% humidity. Looking ok so far.

Shady, believe it or not you can leave them in that for months without any mold growing in it. I know it sounds horrible, but it works wonders for some of my seedlings. A friend of mine also does this, and has incredible results with seedlings.