When do you put your Orchids outside in the UK
 

I would like some advice from some UK growers as to when you put your orchids outside.

Previously I've always grown in the house, but now I have some that I intend to have outside for the summer but I'm not sure when it's safe to do that.

I have some Den Phal types which I know others grow outside in the UK and I would like them to get the higher light levels offered outside. I also have a Cym which I plan to summer outside as well as a few other little things. Things like my Phals will stay inside.

I guess that's a secondary question... which Genuses do you put outside for the summer in the UK?

Just wondering if anyone has any experience they can share with me to help with this question. I have some shelving all ready to receive some plants, but don't want to risk them getting too cold if I put them out too early.

:biggrin: Glad you asked that, because I'd love to hear peoples responses to this as I am planning to puts a couple of Chids out this summer too!

Here's my :twocents:
This will be my first summer with Orchids (Phals and a Den), but I am intending to see if I can put them outside.

Been doing a bit of research though and aquired a camo net, for dappled light and as a bit of a wind break. When dealing with potentially windy spots I have read that using a slatted wind break system is far better for your plants than sticking them up against a solid wall. This is because the slatted system allows the airs to moves through at a reduced rate rather than up, over and straight down onto the plants.
Also find out which parts of your garden act like wind tunnels.

I will not be putting any out until maybe June and I wont be leaving them out over night. Summers where I am can get quite hot and sunny. The area is a bit of a weather trap to be honest, so rain clouds rarely stay for too long. The main worry I'd have is strong winds.

As for what will happen I have yet to see.... Perhaps I'll be killing Orchids sooner rather than later, but I hope not ;)

Not a UK grower but here are a few references that might be of some use...

In the really old book... Cool Orchids and How to Grow Them (you can download it for free) there's a fun passage on summering orchids outdoors in what I believe is now the Czech Republic. If you take a look at this article...Growing Orchids Outdoors in Southern California...you'll notice many orchids in common. I think it's safe to say that orchids that people grow outdoors year around in nearly frost free climates are good contenders to summer outdoors in frost prone climates.

My friend in Rome, Italy grows orchids outside year around...here you can see snow on his Vanda coerulea. If you're on Flickr you can send him a message and I'm sure he'd be happy to share a list of his orchids with you. However, looking at a chart comparing the average temps of East Midlands, UK and Rome, Italy...

52.8N | 272 ft | East Midlands, United Kingdom --- 41.95N | 79 ft | Rome, Italy
http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?c...0|70|80|90|100
Sources: Orchid Culture, Weather Reports,Temperature Charts

...his temps are a lot warmer so that's something to take into consideration. It's warmer in the sun than it is in the shade so for the warmer growers (ie Dendrobium bigibbum complex) I'd recommend trying to gradually acclimate them to as much direct sun as possible. Here in Southern California I've seen Dendrobium nobile growing in full sun so I wouldn't be surprised if some from the Dendrobium bigibbum complex could handle full sun as well.

Thanks for all that info. It will take me a little while to digest all of it.

I know that OB member Hedge has said she grows Den phal/bigibbum hybrids in full sun here in the UK. I'm sort of interested how early I can put them out because I think the earlier they go out the better because they will gradually get used to the increasing amounts of light as the weather gets better, on the other hand I don't want them to get too cold.

I'm currently getting mins arround 46F in my unheated greenhouse, but I recon it's a bit colder outside at the momment (which fits well with the Min blue line on your graph). I'm at a point where the greenhouse window is open in the day but I close it at night. While some of the orchids I plan to put outside are in that, others are currently in the house (the dens) and so are more used to higher temps.

Wow. Thanks for the links!

Plus you reminded me of something, how it slipped my mind I will never know but here it is. :roll:

This Link is to a British Nursery specializing in Hardy Orchids, including British native species.
Been really tempted, but I'm not convinced they will survive in the habitat my garden provides, as most Brit' 'Chids seems to be Marsh and Meadow specialists.... Maybe one day.

Hardy Orchid Nursery

I've looked at that Hardy Orchids quite a few times. I might try some Cyps at some point, but I think I will have to try them in tubs so that they get enough drainage as my soil is full of clay.

Triffid, your profiles says 'Up North', not quite sure how far north you are but I've seen Dactylorhiza growing in 'Upper Teesdale' in the wild.
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...a-fuchsii.html

I think many of that sort grow far better in the north and up in to scotland then down where I am (according to the map of wild distribution anyway).

Sorry the "Up North" is just me joking because of my now considered "Honoury Northern Bird" status (Blame Hubby).
Not in Scotland, but Lancashire. :lol:

Problem for me is I'm relatively near the coast in a sandy area. Keeping the garden from going bone dry can be a real chore some summers. Though I have considered a pond and doing something drastic to alter the conditions... But after having a look at your link I may do a little more digging for info, bite the bullet and just give it a go.... Why not!? After all I keep going back to that site window shopping and dreaming.

Beautiful Orchid, and how nice to see in the wild. :biggrin: Hoping to go on our own wild orchid hunt this year, just hope we are as lucky as you were.

Hope it goes well with the Cyps!

The three factors to consider when deciding when to put an orchid outdoors are elevation, latitude and perhaps length of the dry season. The higher the elevation and/or latitude the earlier you can put it outdoors. For example, Dockrillia striolata grows all the way south to Tasmania which is at around 42S latitude. Dendrobium falcorostrum occurs at a lower latitude (around 30S) but higher elevation (around 1400m) where it occasionally snows.

Dendrobium bigibbum, however, occurs at around 12S latitude and at low elevations...where, to my knowledge, it does not experience any significant cold. But...some in the complex experience a fairly long dry season. For example, according to the book, "Australian Tropical Orchids"... Dendrobium bigibbum var. bigibbum and var. superbum both experience a long dry season lasting around 7 to 8 months. Even though the book recommends that for successful culture they must be kept warm and dry during the winter and spring....so far I have not lost any of the half a dozen or so NOID Den bigibbum hybrids from the typical amount of cold and rain that we experience here in SoCal. They are all mounted so they dry off fast. My theory is that perhaps some of the same adaptations which allow an orchid to survive long dry periods also help enable it to endure periods of relative cold.

So if your Dendrobium bigibbum is one of the long dry season types...and it's not actively growing...you should be able to put it out fairly early in the year...especially if it has excellent drainage and receives bright light. Not sure how frequently it's raining over there but just to be on the safe side I'd recommend protecting it from the rain as well...at least until summer.

To help visualize the dry season here is a climate diagram of Normanton, Australia. Dendrobium bigibbum occurs further north but it's the closest location with climate data that most closely matched what was described in the book. The red line represents the average temperature (Celsius), the blue line represents rainfall (mm) and the brown area represents the period of drought...which appears to last around 6 months. The area above the red line and beneath the blue line represents the growing season and should ideally be shaded green but my Google Graph skills fell short.

http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?c...b,FFFFFF,0,1,0
Source: Weather Reports

Thanks Epiphyte. Two of my three NoID bigibbum are actually starting new canes at the momment, only just at the first signs of growth stage, but still there. Maybe I need to wait that being the case.

I think our temps are significantly lower than your graph shows (not suprisingly).

epiphyte78 you're a star! :)

Rosie: Can't find it at the moment, but I did find the UK weather records... Had stuff from years back for different areas.
If I do locate it again I'll be sure to post the link here.

I am in Nottinghamshire and the only planys I put out are Pleionies, otherwise NEVER put anything outside. Our weather is far too unpredictable, so unless you are around to whip them in again in cold spells I would say don't risk it. Even my Cymbidiums stay in all year, but that greenhouse is never shut April to end September. Putting them out also risks critters making their home in the compost ready for a nice warm protected winter indoors so they can multiply and spread indoors.
Richard

richardb
I agree that most of this country has very unpredictable weather, just not always as extreme conditions as elsewhere round the world. Apparently we have more tornados per sq mile than anywhere else in the world, there just really small (usually) and of no real bother.

I may live in Lancashire, but I have seen a few really nice gardens where I am, with what can only be described as warm weather specialists plants. Plants that I would have never been able to grow where I used to live.
But about 30 miles or so down the road.... Rain... More rain.... even more rain.

It really does depend on which part of this bizarre little island you reside in. Some places have much more predictable weather patterns and variances. With extreme fluctuations happening every 10-15 years or so, from what I can tell.
It snowed here this winter and actually settled, hubby said the last time he saw actual settled for more than hour snow was over a decade ago. But where the rest of the country suffered for a few days, here it started to go after a couple (Sea side air I suppose)

The far south coast of this island can also grow coconut palms, the seeds actually get washed up and occasionally manage to grow.

This will be an experiment for me, but I wont be leaving the tropical plants outside over winter or over night, even if there are a couple of palm type trees dug into the ground round here.
But with temps getting to up around 25-30*c at times, I may just be lucky with my location.

But there are Orchids out there that may just be suitable for your garden and environment. ;)

Weather Records
 

:banana:

YAY! Found it again! (Bookmarked now)
This sites has some records from years back, so should prove some use.

Great Britain History - WeatherOnline

Remember that the info is usually from the nearest weather station to where you live, so may not be completely right for your particular spot. But at the very least should give you an idea of what to expect in your patch (there are always exceptions though, such is life).

Hi Triffid,

I was reading that Phalaenopsis is a CAM (Crassulacean Acid Metabolism) plant. I haven’t yet checked all the other orchid genera. CAM plants absorb CO2 during the night; this is stored in the vacuoles and used in the day. Would they not benefit from more air circulation at night outside, than inside?

Years ago I used to grow lots of tropical and subtropical plants, and I remember the succulents and cacti (which were all CAM plants) used to grow much better when they enjoyed some time outside, even if the temperatures were a bit lower than a greenhouse. They also seem to love the rain as well as the fresh warm summer air.

Later I learned about how CAM plants uptake CO2 at night and store it until the daytime for processing. I realised then how much better the process is when there is good air circulation—like being outside at night—which is rarely the same in a greenhouse or home unless you have a small fan running.

Anyway, it’s an interesting subject. Anything is good as long as it makes our little ones grow and thrive all the more.:)

The big danger of putting Phals outside is that when it rains water will undoubtedly rest in the leaf joint and cause rot. In the wild these plants grow on branches and have evolved with their leaf rosette pointing downwards thus preventing that porblem. If you do put them out, make sure they have rain protection.

Hi Sotetsu :waving

Probably, I just have to watch out for the wind.... Oh and the slugs and snails (Though used coffee grounds is effective there)
:hmm Which one would I risk out all night!?.... Phal Mutant 4!

Not much good shelter in the garden and I am currently without a greenhouse and or cold frame. Currently make makeshift shelters when needed. Working on getting something more permanent though.

But you've given me something to think about. If I don't risk it this year I may try it next year ;)

Perhaps I should see about moving my plants into the bedroom for now, after all we humans breath out CO2.

richardb, Good point! :nod: And definitely something to remember!

Hi Richard,

I think the thing is WHICH orchids you put outside. I have NO plans to put my Phals outside which as you say would hang upside down in the wild. Some of the ones I want to put outside are terrestrial. One of them is a large Cym and I know my Gran grows them outside in the summer and has similar weather to us (actually she is near nottingham like you).

I will have an area with rain protection as well which is where the Dens will go.

Thanks Triffid. I've bookmarked it as well, some great info there.

I'd love to put my Dens outside, but I'm not sure I'm ready to try it this year - neither of my Dens are doing very well. But I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on Rosie - keep us posted, won't you!

Thanks Nic, glad to hear you put them outside. I'm pretty sure Heather (Hedge) does as well which is why I was thinking of doing it. Hope yours pic up, mine are all doing quite well just now... the one I was worried about has a spike and a new cane starting at the momment so I think it's doing OK :biggrin:

Point of possible interest and relative to location within UK (and elsewhere more than likely).

Was watching QI the other week and it had something on it about the time it takes for Spring to travel up the length of the island. Taking this into consideration for putting Orchids outside, the further South you are the sooner you should be able to put them out.

I don't remember it being an extreme difference, rather a week to two or so between the Cornwall and Scotland. Have been trying to find the relevant data to confirm numbers but alas my search is fruitless thus far.

Yeah, I've heard that as well.

I also know there can be more local differences. My parents are on a farm in the middle of nowhere and they find spring is about a week later for them than it is in the village about 3miles away. They notice this in the times of daffs and crocusses opening.

They think it is due to the various houses in the village protecting the gardens from cold winds, on their farm though there is nothing to stop the cold wind and spring is noticably later.

I towards the edge of a town with houses all arround so I don't think I'll the same problem as mum.

Interesting about your parents Garden, I agree it must have something to do with how much protection the site gets.
I like to think of it as a Mexican Wave of Blooms up the country :D

Are you daring to put any of your beauties out at the moment or are the conditions not right yet?

Be interesting to see Location to Location, when's the best time for it. I'm still guessing late may/early June at the earliest for me.

I put my dens out during the day on Saturday as well as my mounted Miltonia.

I brought them in at night though. I'm also still shutting up the green house every night even though it's unheated because I think it gives some prottection for the plants in there.

I'm still undecided if I can leave anything out yet. I don't think I will risk it, but may start moving them out ever day... I have to go out to open the green house evey day anyway so I may take some of the Dens outside at the same time.

I'm guessing and hoping that they suffered no ill effects from it. Do you have a test subject? One that you will keep in over summer?

I thinking of investing in another cheap Den mutant or two, if I can locate any I like. Just so I can get an idea of effects on the plant. Though I must say you putting them out now and being Midlands based, may mean I can try this sooner than expected! Oh I hope so! :crossfing

I didn't have a test subject for Saturdays outing, but one of them had been out in full autum sun during the daytimes last year I found it needed that to start flowering.

They were all cheap NOIDs though so I'm not too worried about them... although they are all growing nicely just now. :biggrin:

I think my more expensive Den Startdust will stay in, it's also not a Den phal type so not sure what conditions it will like.

Just looked that up Den Stardust and what a beauty!

Glad to hear that it seems to be "So Far So Good!" :D
And I''l have to keep that in mind about how you got yours to flower.

Thank goodness for Cheap Noids! :lol:

With all the sun we got this weekend I went for it and put 2 Dendrobiums, the Sharry Baby, a Burr Nelly Isler, and another noid Oncidium outside... and they've all gone nuts!!! There are new roots, on everything and the noid Onc has some new growth which I expect will be a pseudobulb at some point! I kept them shaded most of the time, and spritzed them too, but all in all, I'd say it was successfull! I brought them back in for the night, but as long as this weather holds I'll be doing it again!
Have any of you been putting yours out?

Some of mine have actually been out during the day since early May. The week with this weather I've left them out over night as well.

They have currently been moved to my green house as they were getting too much sun where they were but it is completely unheated and it's automatic window opens before I get up each morning and is still open when I go to bed.

I have put out 4 Dens, a Vanda, a mounted Milt and an Onc. Have not tried the Nelly Isler yet, had not thought of that one, it's only just stopped flowering so has been in my living room and I've not yet decided on a home for it.

I also have 2 Masda and 2 Pleione permenantly in the green house.

Oh and I've put the Cym out as well. That's not with the others, it's actually sitting in it's pot out amongst the permenant garden plants. It's in an outer wooden pot which seems to deter the slugs so far (I know they are arround as I have seen them on other plants). It's in full sun at least half the day if not more, but seems quite happy there... been there two weeks including this last week of really really hot sunny weather. It's showing no sign of sun damage and is growing like crazy.

Due to the chaos of life I missed out on this weekend just gone... :duh: Was out most of the weekend and wasn't willing to leave the plants unattended (the garden is to easy to infiltrate).... Shame :(

Nice to know you guys had good success though! :biggrin:

Yeah I like to be here to supervise. I didn't want to leave anything out if I wasn't around - I have a couple of visiting cats who like to pee in the clematis!

I must admit I leave mine on some high-ish selving even when I'm out. My back garden does get cats and birds but they don't seem interested in my 'chids.

I have a cat that panics when the Seagulls are about, local kids who think because our garden wall is knee height that it means that can use it as a through way, a local Jack Russell who likes to find my cat and a mystery sunflower stealer :shock:

:rofl: Sounds worse than it is

In fairness, my clematis has the biggest flower it's ever seen so maybe I have to be thanking the cats!
I'm hoping for more good weather this weekend so I can get them outside again. They really did seem to take off!

The Cym can take full sun all day long with no problem if you get it used to it. In fact, that's what mine needed to finally bloom, and Lyon is much lower down than the UK! Sun 1/2 the day just wasn't enough the previous years. Mine stayed out until temps hit freezing at night, which was late november last year.

I miss all my orchids, this summer they have to stay cooped up in the apartment with my mom instead of enjoying the summer at the countryhouse with me. Not having orchids over here is tough!

Btw, I don't think I ever saw your completed GH. I assume you posted some photos on OB, but since I didn't log on for over 2 months I missed them.

I did hear from some weird science documentary/program (at some point) that diluted wee does act as a fertilizer, and concentrate as a weed killer :lol: Amazing the things you learn over time.
So you may be right, perhaps the cats have been killing the weeds at the base of the plant and fertilizing at the same time.... It's a thought ;)
If you want to deter the Cats though, use a cheap water pistol. Surprisingly effective.

On the subject of weather, for those in the UK who don't already, check out the BBC News site and the Weather Link. It can provides a 5 day Forecast for you local area.

Thanks on the info about the Cym Camille, I put this out when the weather was still quite cloudy every day (because I knew it could take the temps) so it has got used to the sun steadily as the days have got brighter. I actually noticed the other day that the sun position through the day is now such that it gets sun from arround 10am to arround 5pm and that could get longer as we aproach mid-summer. It seems happy, so I'm glad to hear they can take that.

I never did post pics of my greenhouse. I always intended to, but they are still just shoved in a file on my PC and not even sorted/named. I have pics all through the process so I will have to get them posted. We fitted an auto-opener to the vent just a few weeks back and that was really worth it, to save me worrying if I've gone out and forgotten to open the window on a hot day.

We've had a similar problem in the front garden. It used to be a completely open are of grass on a curve, so kids would just take the straight line accross our grass instead of the curve of the path. We then planted shrubs arround the edge to try and discorage it and when they were small they got kicked as the kids just carelessly walked their old route as though the plants weren't there. Now the shrubs are about knee hight, but also quite wide and it seems to have stopped them at last because it's now more effort to step over them.

I would never think of putting my orchids in that bit of garden though... they all go behind the 6" fence in the area at the back. We only have a 4" fence between us and two neighbours, but the 6" fence surrounds the three gardens so it is relatively secure.

I am trying to do something similar. Currently trying to collect a variety of spiky and fast growing bush style plants. Wouldn't mind so much people passing through our garden if they could just avoid leaving litter and damaging the plants. But what can you do, at least it's a great excuse for getting more plants. :) Besides I'd look like a crazy person if I stay in the front garden 24/7 like some sort of animated scare crow ;)


A little windy today but I may try and get a couple of plants out this afternoon. Selected one mutant Phal and one mutant Dend.
:crossfing