Onc. Sharry Baby in water culture
 

This is Onc. Sharry Baby 'Short Sharry', my favorite of the five different clones I have grown.

It has been growing in water culture for 3 years and this is one of 4 divisions since. It has grown faster than in any other medium I had tried in the past 20+ years and the flowers last longer. This is one plant I keep in water culture permanently because I can keep it compact when not in bloom since the roots are growing dense and short, as you can see from the close-up picture, and the plant remains easy to lift. The older I get the more important this has become. Division is also easy. One cut and I can put the divisions in semi-hydro and give them away.
Right now there is a sibling about to bloom in South America in the yard of a friend who has many in pots and wild orchids all over her trees but wanted this one.:rofl:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...er_culture.jpghttp://www.orchidboard.com/community...ootcloseup.jpghttp://www.orchidboard.com/community...harry_root.jpg

Your posts/pics always just AMAZE me!!!

I want all mine in vases now!!! :rofl:
My hubby might not take that news very well though ::)

Sure Susanne with your 1,000 orchids the smell of dead algae and the mosquitos at night would feel like you were living in the swamps.

But I really want to want to water my orchids with the hose like I imagine you do.

Very nice ! thanks for sharing

LOL...it's only about 400 ;)

I use a 2 gallon pump sprayer with rainwater to mist them every day and a 1 gallon motorized sprayer to feed the mounts and vandas once a week, a watering can for the rest :faint:

Motorized sprayer?
Now I am really interested. Is it on wheels and can you recommend one?

sue, ONLY 400 ???:faint:
i didn't know oncidiums would grow this way! thanks for sharing!:biggrin:

Sun RM, I have followed some of the water culture threads and am always up for trying something new but i have 2 questions for you, :blushing: hope you dont mind.
How do you do the transition from medium to water and what happens in the winter when the water gets cold?:scratchhead:

Thanks

I'm so glad you asked Soonix. I'd like to know also. I was asking myself, 'should I, should't I ask?' and then I saw your post.::coverlaugh:

You know it, great minds..........:bananaslide:

This is the one I use for fertilizing the chids:
Rechargeable Garden Sprayer from Black and Decker

I love it but there is one design flaw that I'm not crazy about. You must keep the button pressed down with your thumb, there's no way to lock it in. I have problems with my hands and this sometimes creates a problem for me. On those days, there are lots of rest-breaks in between spraying.

This is the one that gets used every day:
Gilmour 2000P Sprayer - Sprayer Outlet

Soonix and Sandy

Although I have been growing in water culture, out of necessity and curiosity, for over 5 years I am always interested in other people's experience since I feel I have a lot to learn. Sharry Baby and Bl.Sunset Glory are some of my "Mermaids" which can be transplanted anytime in my conditions.

First, I grow indoors with a shallow sunroom addition that is part of my study, as you can see in my previous picture. Most important, in the winter I use supplemental light 12=14 hours/day. The humidity is below 40% much of the time, fans going most of the time, temperatures ranging from 67 to 88 (depending on sun light in the N.E. )in the Winter. In the Summer it might briefly reach 99F. If you look at my gallery you can see what I have bloomed in early Spring.

Of course, it is best to transplant anything when it is not in some kind of natural resting period. However, when you have bad roots, on a robust plant and you grow indoors?

My evolving practice, if you are interested:

After I immerse the entire plant in a large container of plant food and KLN for 2 to 4 hours for the "Last Supper" with uppers. I cut off all rotten roots and amputate diseased or senile(obviously non-working root) and parts of otherwise healthy roots that are diseased. All old roots will die anyway which then have to be removed. However, some healthier roots, before their short life in an alien medium, will actually sprout new branches to keep supplying the plant with water and nutrients, if only temporarily(Oh the right genes!). So if I think I have the future time commitment, and really care for the plant, I go for this tedious process. You can see the gouged out parts in this Catt. rhizome in this picture. The new growth also had its root plate rotted and had to put out a feeble new lead under water before any roots were produced (see picture) and all leaves were puckered then plumped up. It actually bloomed great 2 years later in water culture.
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...owth_clean.jpg
If I am pressed for time I just cut off all roots, especially on robust Catts. I did not notice a difference with them except that it is much less work. The goal is to keep rot producing organisms to a minimum so that the plant has an even chance to fight them (similar to what we do to treat infections in mammals).

I now rate plants for resistance to rot, which seem to vary greatly, and probably also influenced by whether they are virussed or not ( just like someone with AIDS succumbs to all kinds of infection others can fight). Many of my novelty oncidium hybrids that did poorly actually showed flagrant signs of virus on new growth eventually, sometimes after 2 years (What a bummer! You probably take a 50/50 chance with these).

If there are two or more healthy robust pseudobulbs to supply the new growth, now I remove the senile backbulbs with black rot on rhizomes immediately. If I feel forced to keep the sick ones, I surgically remove the rotted parts with a razor blade or scalpel, treat with Gentian Violet 1%. If there is no sign of deep rot I just clean with drugstore hydrogen peroxide full strength, change solutions more frequently, and hope for the best. I alway keep a freshly-poured cup of peroxide (as you probably know it turns into water and oxygen quickly in air) with cotton swabs which I keep handy when I groom my orchids, so this is easy. However, lately, I have stayed away from buying such sick plants unless I just feel like experimenting with new treatments. (I even carry a Jeweler's magnifier when I plan to shop.)

Once in the culture medium I try to keep all roots covered with solution, and if necessary, tie the plant on something like plastic spoons and forks and slant as needed to accomplish this. I usually end up keeping a little bit of Onc. pseudobulbs and all Catt. rhizomes submerged.

If I don't see healthy algae growth soon, but instead I see brown deposit on the container, I debreed the rotten stuff, treat for infection again and repeat this until it is eliminated or I give up on the plant. Sometimes this culling is easy because I may end up with 2-3 sections that were no longer attached functionally to the original little pseudobulbs that came with the plant and had to be severed in the original cleaning process.

Susanne

Thank you very much for your reply.
I too have to spare my fingers.
Once I had a sprayer that allowed a lock but I can no longer find it. I will let you know if I find something that locks.

Sun rm.N.E., I just read your post (#12, above) but need to really concentrate on everything you've just explained here. I sent this thread over to my email and will read every detail again later.

I thank you so very much for this in-depth explanation and process you've just expounded on in this practice I've never heard or knew of.

I've got a Miltassia that may be just the right candidate for this.

Your one plant that you've posted is amazing. I'm going to have a look now at your gallery pics.

Again, Thank You.

Thank you for the answer, I think i will have to go find a catt and see how it goes, i also have NOID phal keiki that should make for a good and cheap experiment. I currently have a backbulb of a Odbrs Kenneth Bivens sitting in a glass of rain water outside. It had no roots what so ever but its still green so... Thank you for all the tips Sun rm.

Sandy

It would help if you specified which Miltassia since they vary widely in their tolerance to environmental conditions and would be useful to see a picture of the plant and top of the roots if this is easy for you.

Me again sorry:blushing: I assume that some genera make better subjects than other which ones in your experience should we keep away from the water? Would a vanda be a good subject? I already have them in vases and i leave a bit of water in the bottom for humidity and i have a decent amount of algea growing in these vases. Also do you still feed the chids or do they get the nutrients from the algea.

Thank you for your patience with me.:thanx:

Soonix

Phals have not done well for me in water culture. The water kept creeping up into the center of the leaves causing crown rot. However, at that time I was not as rigorous in treating infection.
Now I simply buy Phals with healthy looking roots, cut off all rotten roots, treat with Gentian Violet and put them in S/H. I have tried this only in Spring and Summer so far. There is another post in the Semi Hydro Forum where someone is experimenting with growing Phals in water culture with a slightly different technique and I am curious about what his long term results will be.
I got my first bit of credible information from a former vendor's website, Vengers, who grew and bloomed all kinds of plants including Nobile dendrobiums (with starve and chill treatment for them in Winter) in water culture. They reported that although they could grow Phals in water culture, they definitely did better in other media. They also advised not to go below 6oF in temp for most orchids. As you saw before I go a bit lower at night but I believe that providing adequate supplemental light in the Winter, which goes along with higher temperatures while the lights are on, changes the equation somewhat.

Sun rm.N.E., I just did a repot of the Miltassia Shelob, from a 6" to 4" pot. I had been underwatering this. The plant (seemed) to never quite dry enough and I was reluctant with watering....wrong move, I know now. I cut off a few spent bulbs and again, not enough...it needs more trimming. The root ball was massive and also, a lot of dead roots. I did a major surgery on this and am now trying to plump it back up.

Before I switched to non organic potting material (LECA) for my Catts, I used to cut ALL their roots down before repotting. That was the best advice I ever received. I'd always give a hormone bath before repotting. I'm not sure if this method would work for my Miltassia. Sorry, I haven't any pics of the roots, as they look, presently.

Miltassia Shelob 'Tolkien'

Before and After

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...0076_IMG-1.jpg http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...0083_IMG-1.jpg

Fascinating concept - what part of the US do you live in? I'm guessing it must be somewhere warm? Enjoyed looking through your gallery. How often do you completely change the water or do you?

Soonix

I use a balanced nutrient solution of DynaGrow or MSU fertilizer all the time for most orchids and aim for about 125PPM nitrogen.
This would be close to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of Tomato Food Miracle Grow, the only commonly available plant food that I know to be similar in trace elements. I dilute my standard solution by a third for Paphs and Ludisia, some oncidiums (Sharry Baby gets full strength ).
I change the solution at least once per week, more often if i have time. If I have to top off liquid to keep the roots covered I use half strength of regular mix.
A few important exceptions: In the winter I starve Nobile type and Australian dendrobiums like Den. kingianum and give them just tap water(I never use pure water alone since the pH is too unstable) from Thanksgiving to the time they show definite signs of flower buds. Otherwise nubbins turn into keikis instead of buds.
I recommend firstrays.com for info on fertilizers. Ray has read some of the research that went into formulating these fertilizers and had the reference for them when I looked.
Algae also consume significant amount of nutrients in the solution depending on their quantitiy. However, when they photosythesize they release oxygen which is good for the roots. So, like with most other conditions for living things, not too much, not too little. I do not know how this would work with your Vanda roots that really are not in solution for long.

I have not grown pure Vandas in water and would consider it very experimental. The Kenneth Bivens has a reputation for being tolerant to wide range of conditions as well as being tough and a good choice as long as the old pb has some potential for new growth. You should see some signs one way or another in a few weeks. It would make good before and after pictures.

The closest in the Vanda alliance that did OK for me was Darwinara Charm. However it, Neo falcata, Catts with heavy walkeriana heritage, Brassavola, Oncid hybrids with heavy onostum, flexuosum and other fibrous or climbing rhizomed types in their heritage grew some decent roots but developed better after I transfered them into S/H or just plain lecca watered by the trial error method.
On the other hand, certain orchids actually grew and bloomed very much faster this way such as Sharry Baby, Cochleantes Amazing, Hawaera, Leptotes bicolor, Rodriguezia venusta, even some Laelocattleas, Richard Mueller Hybrids, and some Potinara. Bromeliads love it and some look beautiful in vases. I had one that produced 8 pups for the first time after 40 years of growing it.

Sandy

That is a beautiful flower. The leaves look OK on the other picture. I was also wondering how new growth, whatever stage it is now looks and how it is progressing. I find that the condition of new growth is often the best indication which way things are going. With the majority of orchids we grow it is also the best guide to when to transplant using any method.

A lot of my plants that later adjusted very well took a very long time to get used to my conditions. Most of these novelty oncidiums are mass produced in places like Taiwan, grown too fast and forced to bloom too early. To speed things up they are provided very specific conditions for each phase of development that we can not duplicate in the house. So unless you bought from a grower who grows for people interested in keeping their plant even after the pretty centerpiece fades, your plant may have to make a major shift in the way its genetic programs are expressed to cope with a new environment the likes of which it has never seen before. At best- all this takes time.

This is the info sheet for growers I found on the Tolkien clone from the people at Orchidworks who had produced a lot of these seedlings and plugs and sold wholesale to other growers.

Temperature 55 - 85 Degrees Farenheit
Humidity 50% - 80%
Light 2000 - 3000 foot candles
To get info on other plants:
The Orchid Works
They have a handy table for current plant or Click on Plant Archive then: click on your plant Name

Mayres

I live in the North East and grow in a Sun Room addition that is part of my living space all of which I tried to include in my login name to remind people.

I answered your other questions in the two posts above or the on page 2 under conditions. I try not to repeat myself so people wont stop reading the thread

Sun RM I went outside last night to check on the Bivens and I is growing a new shoot, no roots yet. But if its growing i take it as a good sign.

Thank you for sharing all the info.

I was planning a new thread about my Nubby but you mentioned it.:lol: My nubby/ nobile is in bloom now is there something wrong with her biological clock?

Soonix

That's good news about the Bivens. I usually make sure that the root area is always covered with solution, even if I have to submerge the old PB a bit. I just keep the old bulb clean with peroxide and scrape it clean if necessary.

About the nobile dend. If it is one of those mongrel hybrids it can flip its genetic deck of cards many ways. I have one that blooms on and off for at least 6 months out of the year.

Sun rm.N.E, thank you for the info on the Tolkien. The condition of the new growth seems to be quite prolific as of late. I'm going to stay on track with the advice given to me on the board just a few days ago and try to get the bulbs plumped and up the watering.

I do hope that you continue to post your progress. I have been really taken in by this thread and your method of growing. I found this all so fascinating. Thank you for this education. I'm just amazed by it all.

Mike, I thought of you as I was reading Sun rm. N.E.'s thread. I thought you'd be very curious about this and was going to pass on this info to you. I'm glad you saw this fantastic and so curious thread, yourself.

Yes - I'm actually a little overwhelmed by it all - can't quite get my "brain" around it - I think I'll just let it "settle" for awhile.......:D

It sounds good. How is it done?

Nancy

Nancy

As you know our choice of how we grow our orchid depends on many things such as what we are able and willing to provide to meet their BASIC needs which can vary greatly among orchids, sometimes contrary to old wives tales and old hubby tales repeated over and over in books. In the 30+ years I have grown orchids I too tried many different methods. I have lost hundreds of orchids and grew and flowered many beautiful ones as well. For various reasons I had to stop growing orchids all together twice.

This time, my goal is not to have any organic rotting media in my house, not have to raise the humidity too high to ruin my walls. I transfer whatever I can into SH or lecca and Epiweb watered the traditional way. I still make exceptions, grow some suspended in the air and dunked in nutrient solution whenever I am able to do so. I no longer want to see plants take years to die so this method puts them to the test.

Water culture was intended as the treatment if a plant looks too infected with rot and does not have a good chance in SH. I can easily see what needs to be treated and how it can cope with wetness. If it thrives, as many have, I then transfer to SH. Of, course there are some exceptions, like this Sharry Baby clone which I have grown many different ways in the past 20+years and found that I prefer it in water culture for the reasons I listed above.

If your plants are thriving currently and you like what you are doing, I see no reason to change. It requires a lot more attention, sometimes daily fill-ups.

If you read my previous posts and still have specific questions I will be glad to try to answer them. I just don't want to bore people and repeat myself.

Thankyou Sun rm. I will look up your previous posts. I have a Sharry Baby that bloomed once and hasn't bloomed since. It refuses to grow,but looks healthy enough. I thought that maybe a different treatment might encourage it a bit.

Nancy

Nancy

I find that the different clones of Sharry I grew behaved differently. As I understand it a new clone is usually from a different mating of parents and don't have to be more alike than brothers and sisters and the parents themselves may have resulted from different clones so our plants may just be more like cousins genetically.
I grew:
1. Onc. Sharry Baby 'Sweet Fragrance' (tallest)
2. 'Short Sharry' (shorter leaves but fat pb)
3. 'Two Color' (in between size)
4. 'Fantasy'
5. 'Red Fantasy' (this and the previous are smaller in size and I could not tell them apart even when in bloom)

1 & 2 irrepressible bloomers. I looked at division of 'Short Sharry' I gave away to someone 5 years later. He said he lost all his houseplants to neglect except for this one. Never fertilized it just took it to the sink for a soak once in a while. The new pseudobulbs were the size of my thumb, (the one above is 3.5+inches across) hanging over the edge of the pot. It had a few miserable little flowers with a big scent. Since I was restarting my orchid collection once again at the time I asked him for a division of 2 pseudobulbs. The result is a division of those 2 little pseudobulbs you see above in water culture 3years later. This is also a good example of the advantage of water culture. I don't think this rehab would have happened so fast in regular culture under my conditions.
4 & 5 grew fast but needed a lot more light to bloom and did not have the disease resistance of 1 & 2. #3 seems to require more light to bloom too but has better disease resistance. I gave away a division of this plant to someone in South America who grows near the Amazon. She complained that it filled a large pot but was not blooming. Now it is full of spikes after she gave it more sun. The all inherited a wonderful fragrance.

I hope this is helpful.

Sun rm, you make me feel better. I read so many comments on how easy Sharry Baby is to grow,and have wondered why mine should be different. The black sheep in the family no doubt. Maybe I'll dump it and get another Dendrobium. Those I can get to bloom!

Nancy