Cattleya (2&1/2" pots) Seedling care/Pot Medium Advise!

[emmajs243]

Hey guys! With all the sick orchids I have rescued, I am getting so tired of having more sad cases then happy ones and so when Carter and Holmes weekly email came out and Idaho was actually NOT on the "No Shipping due to cold weather" list for seedlings, I jumped on it before even thinking through care for seedlings! So now I have two 2 & 1/2 inch pot size seedlings on there way to me and suddenly am having a heart attack with my excitement turning to worry that I will murder my first set of babies!

I have heard a lot about compots but that looks like it's only really used for newly deflasked seedlings so I would think mine are past that point?? I am newly doing s/h so I have all the supplies for that but not too much fresh supplies for anything else. I have many seedling mats so that isn't a problem but Potting media wise, what do you guys use?? I don't know how a seedling would do in s/h. I know it is normally advised to repot orchids when you purchase them but would you guys do that to fairly freshly established seedlings? (Maybe they arent considered seedlings anymore, not sure!) I would like to have repot media on hand for them just in case but just don't know what to use. Are they big enough for a type of bark or would sphag/coco husk fiber be better options?

ANY advise would be greatly appreciated!

[estación seca]

There are numerous opinions. Most seedlings from C&H arrive in good medium and without bugs. I personally would not repot a Cattleya in winter unless it is urgent, and that will not be the case with your seedlings. Keep them warm, bright but not in direct sun, and try not to let them dry completely. Cattleya adults may dry, but seedlings don't tolerate this so well.

If your seedlings are outgrowing the pot, repot when it warms up in spring. But based on my experience with C&H seedlings, they might be fine in those pots for a year.

[emmajs243]

Thank you so much for the feedback. I personally have never ordered from C&H but have heard that they are a tip top operation so it's great to have that reaffirmed! And excelle to also know about not letting them completely dry out. With my other cattleya that is BS but still young, (in a 4 inch pot), I have been following the AOs directions of watering just a day or two before the pot is completely dry. Which has taken some learning but I'm getting the "pot weight" feeling down. Would you say this is about right for the seedlings too or sooner?

Also I just wanted to let you know, after your comment about hydrogen peroxide in my other forum, someone else had the same opinion, it has made me seriously reconsider the use of hydrogen peroxide on roots. I have grown up show jumping horses and working with vets constantly as a result and even the best vets in the US have told me, DONT USE HYDROGEN PEROXIDE on injuries!!! everyone says that you should and they do, but it really should be treated as a last resort instead of a first. They said the only reason it's become this go to thing is because it is cheap, and easy to find. When you use it though, it kills all the white blood cells at the injury site that have already started to work to fight an infection and that have already possibly build up antibodies to whatever infection that is present. So when you use it, you rewind and your body is left having to start all over on the healing process. Of course they said, is there a time and place for its use? Absolutely. But there are so many better options to turn to instead.

So after I started hearing you and others say don't use hydrogen peroxide, I started thinking back to the discussions with multiple vets saying the same thing with animals and that's when I decided, If I wouldn't use it for vetting an animal or myself, why would I use it on my plants? Now on that note, with animals, I know what to use instead. For plants, not so much. So I ask, what do you use instead of hydrogen peroxide?

Now don't get me wrong, I would like to be able to never have to use hardly any chemicals on my plants except maybe the occasional preventative measures. I would like to keep them healthy and happy just by proper care BUT. Rescue orchids that you receive and the damage has already been done, what would you do?

Sorry long reply and sorta off topic, I just wanted to let you know and thank you for your knowledge!

[Roberta]

I think that those vets have it right... give nature a chance, don't intervene unless it is clear that nature needs some help. With my orchids, I treat very little - if I cut, perhaps some cinnamon on the cut surface - a natural fungicide and facilitates drying. When in doubt, you can just let the cut dry. (most orchids aren't harmed by drying for a few days, those pseudobulbs and hard leaves store water which is really important if you live on the side of a tree and it doesn't rain for a couple of days - or even months.) If I have a fungal issue, I may use Physan, which is pretty gentle. (Just don't use it in water containing fish... it damages their gills. People, pets, and plants don't have gills so for those it's safe) Surgery if there's a well-defined problem in a well-defined area (like a leaf with a soft mushy brown or black spot) But in general diagnose FIRST before treating anything. And remember, if you cut it's irreparable, so research and inquire and understand why you are doing what you are doing before attacking. And some rescues are just not worth the time and trouble (and potential for bringing bugs or disease into your collection), better to expend the effort on a new, healthy plant.

Best time to repot any orchid is when new roots are just getting started. Some will forgive if you do it at other times, but some (and especially Catts) will be very angry (even to the point of suicide). New roots will adapt to new media where old ones very likely will die if their environment is changed drastically.

[Fairorchids]

I buy a lot of Cattleya plugs (3-6 months out of flasks), which come in bare root.

Unless they are exceptionally large, I put them into 3" clear plastic pots with slits in the sides. I use a mix of seedling size bark, charcoal & perlite (approx 3:1:1).

Then I give them slightly lower light & slightly higher temperatures than mature Catts, and water them very well (heavily once a week in winter and twice a week in summer). I fertilizer every 2 weeks, except for Dec/Jan/Feb (once a month).

After 18-24 months, they are ready to move into 4" (occasionally 5") clay pot with a mature Catt mix.

[emmajs243]

FairOrchids! Thank you! The detail in your post is SUPER helpful! Where do you normally find orchid seedling bark? Anywhere online? Honestly, I hear such awful things about more common brands of bark I am at such a loss on where to find high quality bark. I also hear about "sterilized" Potting media but haven't been able to find any that say it's a sterile media. The entire bark shopping process gives me so much anxiety! There are so many different types and brands I don't know where to start!

So a tad clarification on your fertilizer regiment, I have the MSU fertilizer, Idk if there are better types or not. Once again, just had to start somewhere and I liked that it had micronutrients as well as a fertilizer designed for well water (although I am wondering if even still our well water is too hard and I really should be using store bought water instead with the proper fertilizer! That may have to be a new thread!) Point, I normally fertilize weekly weakly, I'm too new to the game and too unfamiliar with the fertilizer and my plants to do any different. So is your fertilizer regiment for seedlings at a full strength fertilizer dose or a weekly weakly dose?

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

Roberta! Thank you too! You were the other person who helped me find my own opinion on hydrogen peroxide! All the details on when and what to use is also very appreciated. And I do agree. Some rescues just aren't worth saving and risking the other orchids. VERY good to know that cattleyas are very particular on when to repot! I have read that you only want to repot when their is some great new root growth happening especially if your changing media and this makes total sense to me so that will be a rule I follow! Unless something terrible is happening that requires an immediate repot and even then, If possible fine a different method to encourage new root growth first. I feel pretty confident in C&H seedlings coming in quality fresh media so I will definitely let them be. They will already have enough stress being shipped and in a new environment!

So Roberta, I am really liking your point of view. I have a post about a Phal with white fuzzy mold on its roots. That Phal I let go because I felt like it was just going down hill very quickly, even with a physan treatment. AND its roots were in such terrible condition, in addition to what appeared to be a stem rot, I didn't see it pulling through at this point.

But On that thread I just posted some photos of another rescue Phal. It seems like all four Phals i was given have a black stem rot. I have heard that they can be saved but I question if it is worth it. From what I have found, black stem rot is the same as black rot and unless you can completely cut away the infected area, it will spread to the roots and kill the plant in a few months. What is your opinion on plants with a black stem rot? Would you bother? Can it ever be fully healed? Will the plant be forever contagious to the rest of your plants? I just posted photos of one of the Phals I just unpotted and it kills me because she has such a great green root system built but she too has a less severe case of this black stem rot that is just hitting the roots. From what I read, there really isn't anything I can do, do you agree?

[Roberta]

Emma -
Remember, Fairorchids is starting with bare-root babies, so needs to pot them up. Your new arrivals are already potted in the correct medium (so at the next stage already) no need to repot now (C&H has already taken care of that step). Once your plants start outgrowing their current pots (probably that year to 18 months that Fairorchids mentions) you can pick up where they advance to the 4 inch pots. So for now, don't mess with them. (but the advice on watering, temperature, and fertilizer is spot-on)

[emmajs243]

Oh wonderful!!!!! No need for bark anxiety shopping yet!! Whew!

[Roberta]

If the Phals have rot in the center (also known as crown rot), if they have good roots they may put out another growth ("basal keiki"). If you have the space, worth a try. As long it doesn't drip into other plants, and you sterilize any cutting tool between plants - preferably with a propane torch - (or use single-use single edge razor blades and throw out) probably no danger of spreading it. If you want to observe and learn, go for it. But don't feel bad if the plant croaks. A unique or expensive plant is worth fighting for, generic Phal rescues you can practice on and pitch if they don't make it.

[emmajs243]

Excellent! But in this case, we are just going for a basal keiki really. It may not be bad practice. I work in a lab though and am a tad of a germ freak! Not crazy but when it comes to diseases and things, I like to know that any possibility has been completely eradicated and the risk is gone. Especially with some exciting cattleya seedlings on the way! For now though since I do have the room, Maybe I will try to get some basal keikis from them! that would be an excellent learning experience! Since crown rot spreads too the roots...can it also spread to the basal keikis?!