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  #21  
Old 02-22-2011, 02:57 AM
orchidkilla orchidkilla is offline
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When to repot a Phalaenopsis
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I decided I needed more information to deal with my orchid situation. The best way to get more information is to buy more moth orchids! I bought 3 moth orchids for 3$ each at my local hardware store. They are small. I checked the roots on the first and the roots seemed good. The second I couldn't get out of the pot. The 3rd I noticed severe root trouble.

As for the 3rd I've cut away basically all the roots. I noticed that the bottom of the crown is black, as well as all the roots are dead. All the roots are yellow, black, or have been cut off at a higher point. There was two huge black spots in the roots, forming a ball of a sort. I also noticed the roots and moss were all dry except the black mass which was moist.

In short, 3 moth orchids and all three in distress on the leaves, like a bug eating part of the leaves, and cut marks. One has basically no roots, having trouble cutting the last of the roots. All 3 have moss as the substrate, and opaque pots! The crowns are all green, except the one with no roots, which the bottom of the crown is black.

As for my big orchid with the yellow crown, I bought a thermometer/moisture reader. The humidity level is 50% and the temp is 66 at night. I plan to take a good look at the roots, even though the roots were fine when I bought the big orchid. I saw at the hardware store they had a bark bag for $6. I didn't have any spare pots though. I need to buy some clear plastic pots for my three small orchids.

I'm just going to have to accept probably all four of these orchids will die within the next month, but I will learn a lot. What type of substrate do you recommend? Finally, what to do with a rootless orchid?

I took type pictures from my camcorder here's the images, you can also look on my profile:





I can also upload the original video to youtube and link if you want.

I just took a quick look at the bottom roots of my large phal and the roots are really healthy. The roots are ush green, the same color as the tip of the leaves. There were a few silvery looking roots though implying the roots aren't receiving an even distribution of water. Even the silvery looking roots put the wilted roots of the 3 new small phals to shame.

My conclusion is either A. Crown rot or B. root rot, but near the top and somehow the bottom roots aren't infected. From what I've seen of the root structure of the 3 new phals, that it would be impossible for all the bottom roots to look healthy if a serious root infection was near the top. Even the dried silvery roots on top of the substrate do not seem infected.

Hmmm, I just read about crown rot and found a post from Mehitabel saying:

"Crown rot happens easily with phals if any water gets into the crown during watering, especially if watering is in the evening or at night. You probably know that to prevent it, water in the morning, and blot up any water that gets into the crown with the rolled up corner of a paper napkin. But it's possible your friend didn't know, and allowed a little water to remain in the crown."

Ummm, well I did get a little bit of water in the crown a few weeks ago, I also watered three hours before dawn and didn't know the paper napkin trick. I thought a 1/20-1/10 of half a gallon of water in the crown would be okay. I just got sloppy and went on auto pilot and poured near the base like I would for pepper or tomato plant.

I just remembered the underside of my larger phal's leaves are red. I'm not sure what that means, I noticed when looking at the roots.

Last edited by orchidkilla; 02-22-2011 at 04:44 AM.. Reason: more info
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  #22  
Old 02-24-2011, 04:21 AM
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RJSquirrel RJSquirrel is offline
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Quote:
I just remembered the underside of my larger phal's leaves are red. I'm not sure what that means, I noticed when looking at the roots.
Red or darkish purple...My own guess is the flower on that phal is purple or has some red in it..The leaves will take on a tint of the bloom color in many cases. All 3 of my purple phals have reddish tinted underside and topsides. The youngest leaves are spotted with tiny purple dots..When the leaves get older that becomes less dominant and they seem tinted

and yes phals do better when you water them at the media instead of drenching them over the tops..Okey to drench them on occasion just give them time to dry out before you put them to bed at night..and do you know why this occurs and you arent suppose to let water sit on yer plants at night?

bEC the plants stomata are open during the day for gas exchange..At night the stomata closes and they are resting. When the pores are closed at night it can not use nor process the water, effectively suffocating yer plant and harboring bacteria and fungus while you sleep.

Thats why you dont water late in the evening in a natural environment. If you are indoor under lights and a psuedo-controlled atmosphere,you can water when ever your plants need to be water. OR make you happy
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Last edited by RJSquirrel; 02-24-2011 at 04:34 AM..
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2011, 05:08 PM
orchidkilla orchidkilla is offline
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Thanks for the response, you are right the Phal flower is purple. How red are your leaves on your Phals RJSquirrel? Mine are almost entirely red on the underside, like no green at all.

I'm considering taking back my red leaf Phal since the spike seems to be dying off, the crown is yellow and purple and there is only three leaves, but the leaves are big. I'm just not sure I have the experience to save my Phal. If I had a better digital camera I could take some real nice pics.
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  #24  
Old 03-06-2011, 10:12 AM
LadyGT LadyGT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJSquirrel View Post
bEC the plants stomata are open during the day for gas exchange..At night the stomata closes and they are resting. When the pores are closed at night it can not use nor process the water, effectively suffocating yer plant and harboring bacteria and fungus while you sleep.

Thats why you dont water late in the evening in a natural environment. If you are indoor under lights and a psuedo-controlled atmosphere,you can water when ever your plants need to be water. OR make you happy
Duh! Why didn't I think of this??? Basic information taught in high school biology.
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  #25  
Old 03-07-2011, 01:29 AM
orchidkilla orchidkilla is offline
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I figured I will tell you the story on my 6 inch moth orchid I originally posted about. That way you can be like: Yes, I was right, or darn I was wrong, instead of never hearing from me and forever wondering what happened to my orchid.

I finally decided to change the medium. I wanted to wait a few more weeks so the plant would have time to adapt and not get too stressed. The problem was the orchid was in serious trouble. I examined the roots and the ends were a lush green, the middle yellow, and the top black or dead. I'm not sure why root rot seems to happen right at the top, near the crown/stem. I can never tell which is the crown and which is the stem. Either way root rot vexes me because the bottom root and roots on the side look great, yet the great looking root are useless because the plant has been infected with rot at a higher point.

To make a long story short I cut off all the roots, and about half the stem/crown. I put cinnamon on the bottom and planted the poor orchid in the new medium in the same pot, but sterilized the pot with vinegar first. Only two leaves and half a stem/crown left.

My conclusions/hypothesis on what happened:

The leaves started dying because the plant turned off the leaves in attempt to stop the rot. The flowers started wilting because the plant turned off the crown/stem that was attached to the flower spike, thus the spike got no more nutrients. The crown/stem was yellow because it was dried up and turned off in an attempt to save the orchid's life.

If I ever decided to buy orchid's again I would:

1. Assume orchids from a big box store have root rot even if all the roots you can see look healthy, you need to remove the medium to see root rot apparently. Thus, you must remove the medium and re-pot.

2. Don't trust salespersons, the guy at a premium nursery where I spent money, said it was probably too low a light. In other words he gave me bad advise, and my orchid had less chance of survival because of it. Why would he want my orchid to live? If the orchid dies I'm more likely to buy an orchid from him.
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  #26  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:59 AM
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Sounds like you cut off what appeared to be a generally healthy root system. Color means nothing, it's the texture that you have to go by. The parts of the roots exposed to light will be green, parts of roots deep in the pot that don't get light are usually yellow/brownish, and it's possibly that the top of the roots were black due to fertilizer burn for instance. Only if a root is hollow or mushy is it a bad root. Even if that was the case on yours, the fact that the rest of the root below that point was healthy indicates that the root (which is the thin stringy part in the middle) was still functional. If only one root is like that then it's better to remove it since in time it will usually completely die, but in the case of your plant where all the roots are affectd it's actually better to leave them. Why? Because the plant has somewhat good functional roots to keep it alive until new root start to grow.

Just to clear things up, usually crown = top part of plant where the leaves come out
stem = everything below the crown, although crown is part of it.

You know what? You should buy more orchids! Everyone here has killed their fairshare, and as sad as it is it's a good way to learn. Orchids are quite different than other plants, so there is a pretty steep learning curve. If you get more, I recommend you but from a reputable seller (like Hausserman's for example) so you're much more likey to have a very healthy plant to start with.
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  #27  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:03 PM
orchidkilla orchidkilla is offline
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I'm chewing on your words still. I have to admit dissecting something is one of the best ways to learn. Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind when I replant my two orchids with root systems left.

Its March now, so I have a lot of spring gardening to do, onion grass is sprouting every day in my garden. So I'm going to take off from buying Orchids until after this season's fall crop. I figure the Phalaenopsis kept me entertained for two months in the winter, which is pretty cheap when you do the math.

Now that I think of it, root burn sounds right since the bottom of the stem was dehydrated, and as you know from human burns, fire dehydrates the skin. Also the root mass that I thought was infected by rot was black yet not soggy wet. I knew enough to know something wasn't right, and I took a stab in the dark at the problem.
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