Masdevalia with curling leaves

[SF_Orchids]

I've been able to get a wide range of orchids to rebloom but I've avoided masdevalias after killing two. I finally bought an Electric Purple (Joan Ragan 'Pink Dawn' x Celtic Frost 'Purple Ecstacy') at the Pacific Orchid Exposition and was happy to see new leaves emerge a few months later.

However, those leaves curled into loops as they grew. I've never seen anything like it and can't find anything about it online. At the same time, I'm loosing a few established leaves that have turned yellow. Is this simply too much water?

I'm in San Francisco, so very mild weather year round, moderate humidity, and long daylight through a filtered skylight. Potting medium is small bark on top. Not sure what else. I'm using tap water but it comes from Yosemite and should be fairly pure. Thanks.

[Island Girl]

hopefully someone who knows what's going on will come along!

[jeremyinsf]

Welcome to the Orchid Board! I'm here in SF as well, and have 10 or so Masdevallias, and I have had the same thing happen to me. I've also had it happen with flower spikes! A few thoughts:

- My understanding is that it has to do with humidity issues. The sheath just isn't flexible enough and the parts get trapped inside. Yes, we have decent humidity here, but I'm guessing you are similar to me and that it goes between 50%-70% around now. Simply, they might just want even more. That's why they do so well in the greenhouses or right next to the ocean, but don't always grow perfectly with our own (home) culture. What I do, when I see them get stuck, if I catch it at the right time - is cut it free. Carefully. There is risk there of course, so you might need to try it and learn. Tweezers or scalpel might be best, sterilized of course.

- The general rule is the thicker leaf type plants will grow ok indoors, and the thinner ones really prefer to be outside. Even here. But depending on your home, you might get mixed results either way.

- <begin happy dance> YES - you live in an area with some of the best domestic water on the entire planet. We are indeed very lucky, blessed, or whatever to have this, for a variety of reasons, including growing orchids. So water quality itself shouldn't be the issue, unless you live in a building with really bad pipes or something. <end dance>

- I personally grow all mine in pure, high quality AAA NZ sphag moss. I know a lot of people don't like it as a medium, but it really is ideal for these guys, as long as you understand how to use it properly. It usually needs to be replaced every 9-12 months. There are a lot of reasons why leaves can turn yellow, but it's basically a stressed out plant. It can be too much water, not enough - and also, air movement! Very important for these plants. The top looks a bit dryer than I like to keep mine - have you considered pulling the plant and seeing what is underneath, and how the roots are? If you do it carefully, you should be able to do it without disturbing the plant too much.

Anyway, that's just what I know has/has not worked for me. Hope this helps you somehow.

[WhiteRabbit]

Are those spikes? I'm looking on my phone, so I am not certain ...

Anyway - I don't know if it's a lack of humidity - in SF I would think not, or possible under watering?
These don't want to dry out, tho shouldn't be soggy either. It's also possible there is sphag in the center. I would use a skewer to help determine when to water. Repotting might also be a good idea.

The foliage dropping could be from other mentioned reasons, or the heat a few weeks ago - tho I don't know how hot you got ...

[SF_Orchids]

Thanks for the great replies. I just pulled out the plant. It was in medium sized bark with a little moss on top. I'll try replanting in bark and see if that works. I might try a little sphagnum moss as well.

The roots look ok and the bark was mildly wet from a week ago. Do masdies like to stay as moist as paphs? I've read so many conflicting things on this.

I'm pretty sure those are leaves and not spikes, though I've never had one flower before. I don't think heat was ever a problem as my apartment's never topped 75 degrees. The air flow could probably be better.

I'll try gingerly freeing stuck leaves if this happens again. I tried it just now and it worked on one but the other leaf broke.

I might also try a pebble tray to boost humidity. I've already moved it somewhere with better air flow.

[jeremyinsf]

Those roots look too dry, from my perspective. I keep mine more moist than my paphs (which is mostly what I grow). Sonya is spot on - not dry but not soggy - many say the same for paph's though and I would say, more moist.

Here is a pic of one of mine - the fan behind it oscillates past it every 20 seconds or so, I add water a little every day, it's getting a lot of light, and the humidity around it is good. It's about 20" from my T5-HO lights, and on the 'outside' of the shelf. I think the air flow, turnover of moisture (clay pot + sphag moss), and a healthy type in general make this thing do so well.

[Island Girl]

Ya know, when I said someone who knows more should come along, I was thinking about jeremyinsf, b/c I knew u were in SF, and thought I remembered you growing masdies. Good Luck SF_Orchids! The best advice you can get, is advice from someone growing the same type of orchid as you, in the same area as you.

[SF_Orchids]

Jeremy- you definitely put more TLC into your orchids than I do. I'm going to try the daily light watering for a while and see how that works.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Yes, I agree with Jeremy; Masdevallias grow a bit more moist than Paphs.

Masdies and Paphs grow in completely different kinds of ecosystems.

Think about this...

A large majority, (not all, because if I said "all", it's completely false), Masdevallias come from mid-elevation to high elevation cloud forests. It is so misty from the clouds, that people come out with their clothes damp from all that atmospheric moisture. Not to mention, from what I've read accounts of, it is difficult to see past 10 ft in front of you if you're in these cloud forests.

Here are some in-situ pics of some Masevallias you can check out:

masdevallia chaparensis 1 Bolivia | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Masdevallia picturata (syn Fissia picturata) in situ 2009-03-29 042 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Masdevallia antonii in situ | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

With Paphs, the areas they come from are humid, like Florida humid.

Here are some in-situ shots of some Paphs:

003 Private Farm - Paphiopedilum lowii 2005-07-07 02 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

A Paphiopedilum sp. from Laos | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Paphiopedilum callosum | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

I also agree that the roots look fine.

Masdevallia roots tend not to be as rangy as the roots to some other genera of orchids.

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

Yeah, I get thems curling leaves too.

It is humidity or moisture related. A damaged root system can cause this problem too.

Damaged roots = less water available to the Masdevallia

See - moisture related.

[jeremyinsf]

Originally Posted by SF_Orchids

Jeremy- you definitely put more TLC into your orchids than I do. I'm going to try the daily light watering for a while and see how that works.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Not always! I have two Masd. Huayna Picchu that sit outside, literally on top of the unused BBQ, and they do great. I just make sure they stay moist. These are my 'control group'! If you have an outside area, you could always leave yours out for a few weeks and see what that does to it.