insecticidal soap

[VickiC]

Two questions, please:

I've decided to treat a spider mite problem on a few of my orchids with insecticidal soap first before I resort to one of the big guns if the soap doesn't do the trick.

When insecticidal soap is mentioned in a post, I've read the brand most often mentioned is Safers.

I don't have access to a local supplier that sells Safer products. Walmart and Lowes are my only two options. Walmart sells Ortho insecticidal soap at the moment and Lowes carries Garden Safe.

1. Which of the two is as safe as Safers, if either, and work as well also? I already have Garden Safe but I will buy Walmart's Ortho if you think best.

2. Can I safely use an insecticidal soap on a daily basis? If not, would you please advise a treatment plan for me?

Any other comments are most welcome.

I would appreciate your help,
Vicki

[Andrew]

What you're after is something that contains potassium salts of fatty acids. This is the active compound in Safer's soap. According to th Scott's website Ortho's soap contains potassium salts of fatty acids so it should be comparable to Safer's.
The Garden safe website doesn't list the active ingredients for their soap but if you check the label I suspect it will also be the same (NB they may list it as the actual fatty acid being used eg potassium oleate).

When people talk about Safer's being better for plants, they're usually making the comparison against harsh detergents like dish washing liquid rather than other insecticidal soaps that contain the same active ingredient.

[Zoi2]

I've used the Garden Safe soap with no problems. I have never sprayed daily though. I usually do it every 3-4 days but I've never had a bad infestation.
Joann

[VickiC]

Hi Andrew,
Now that you've helped me by explaining the ingredients that I need to be most concerned about, I searched and found a comment on gardenguides.com: Potassium salts of fatty acids comprise a percentage of typical commercial insecticidal soaps. For example, the Garden Safe product contains just 1 percent of this chemical and 99 percent inert ingredients. However, Safer’s Insecticidal Soap contains 50 percent potassium salts of fatty acids.

I also checked Ortho, and found that the ingredient proportions is the same as Garden Safe.

Thanks for steering me in the right direction,
Vicki

Originally Posted by Andrew

What you're after is something that contains potassium salts of fatty acids. This is the active compound in Safer's soap. According to th Scott's website Ortho's soap contains potassium salts of fatty acids so it should be comparable to Safer's.
The Garden safe website doesn't list the active ingredients for their soap but if you check the label I suspect it will also be the same (NB they may list it as the actual fatty acid being used eg potassium oleate).

When people talk about Safer's being better for plants, they're usually making the comparison against harsh detergents like dish washing liquid rather than other insecticidal soaps that contain the same active ingredient.

[VickiC]

Hi Joann,
I've been reading past posts and found comment variations from members (as always, and to be expected) as to how often treatment for spider mites should be done (depending on the insecticide, of course).....so I appreciate your input about Garden Safe insecticidal soap in particular.

I've got about 6 phals and 2 dens with the spider mite problem. The degree of infestation varies from plant to plant, but the damage is especially on my phals. The problem has slipped up on me mainly because the damage on a phal leaf is underneath a healthy leaf. I obviously am not checking my collection enough, but trust me, I will in the future.

I started spraying the plants with my garden safe insecticidal soap this morn. I saw first hand how difficult it is to keep the liquid from dripping down into the phals crown. I always dabbed it out as best I could with a paper towel, but it still concerns me that liquid is flowing further down into the crown then I can reach. Maybe I'm being overly concerned, but I really don't understand how long a liquid must sit in a crown before rot may occur.

Thanks for your help.
Vicki

Originally Posted by Zoi2

I've used the Garden Safe soap with no problems. I have never sprayed daily though. I usually do it every 3-4 days but I've never had a bad infestation.
Joann

[dounoharm]

as long as you do whatever you do before noon you are ok....ie, watering particularly....or insecticides....or fert.....plants which hold moisture in the crown while the plant is at rest at nite is definately a recipe for rot....i dont believe spraying daily with soap will harm a plant, but i dont think it would be necessary to spray daily....weekly should suffice....gl

[beanluc]

Originally Posted by Andrew

When people talk about Safer's being better for plants, they're usually making the comparison against harsh detergents like dish washing liquid rather than other insecticidal soaps that contain the same active ingredient.

When SAFER talks about Safer's being a better insect control product, they're comparing their potassium salts of fatty acids to harsh and extremely poisonous insecticides like pyrethrins or organophospates - the products whose labels loudly warn against exposing humans and pets.

[Zoi2]

Vicki, spider mites pretty much like their environment dry and airless. Raising your humidity and air flow will help eliminate the spider mite infestation. If you are having a problem with the plants staying too wet from the spray, a fan may help dry them out.
Joann

[VickiC]

dounoharm, I've been trying to spray early to mid. morn. then just wipe the leaves with water late in the afternoon...or when the sun goes down.
Thanks for your help,
Vicki

Originally Posted by dounoharm

as long as you do whatever you do before noon you are ok....ie, watering particularly....or insecticides....or fert.....plants which hold moisture in the crown while the plant is at rest at nite is definately a recipe for rot....i dont believe spraying daily with soap will harm a plant, but i dont think it would be necessary to spray daily....weekly should suffice....gl

[VickiC]

Thanks for your reply and help, beanluc.
Vicki

Originally Posted by beanluc

When SAFER talks about Safer's being a better insect control product, they're comparing their potassium salts of fatty acids to harsh and extremely poisonous insecticides like pyrethrins or organophospates - the products whose labels loudly warn against exposing humans and pets.