Newbie and pal Phal need help! - Orchid Board

Annie T · #1 06-08-2008, 02:09 AM

Hi there. I'm ashamed to admit that I'm a brown thumb with more than a few casualties in my past. In mid-March, I was entrusted with the life of a beautiful white Phalaenopsis. (Like every proud Mama, I have pictures. Check out my Intro forum posting for the "glam" shots.) My little baby seemed to be doing so well… until recently. It appears the brown thumb has struck again. I've spent most of the day scouring websites, and I loved the Orchid Board. As I said in my intro: Obi-Wan, you're our only hope.

When she came to me, Phal had 10 flowers on a single arched spike, plus 9 leaves with the largest span being 19 inches. She stands about 20 inches tall. All of the flowers are still blooming today; however, a little while ago, I noticed some brown curling at the tip of one bottom leaf.

Upon close inspection during my weekly watering this morning, I noticed a variety of things on various parts of the plant. I've posted some pix of my Phal's ailing parts to aid in identifying the crimes I’ve probably committed to this poor unsuspecting creature.

I can't begin to make a judgment call on what’s wrong and how to fix it -- probably multiple things. Here's a quick summary of what I found:
1) Light brown & yellow spots and pitting on some leaves, and a lightening of the green colour at outer edges.
2) A blackish line surrounding a triangular opening in the stem (leaf node?) between two leaves; the line continues up the stem and onto the underside of the leaf just above.
3) A small crusty looking patch on the underside of another leaf very close to the stem.
4) Powdery patches with very small dark spots like dirt on the outside/underside of the base of some leaves, and at the tip of another leaf.
5) On the labellum of the six topmost flowers, the two long thin pieces that curl up on either side of the labellum are starting to turn black/dry up. (What are those long tendrils called, by the way?) The bottom four flowers still look fine.
6) On the dorsal sepal of one flower and a lateral sepal of another flower, there are some sort of odd markings that I can’t begin to describe. (I guess that’s what pix are for!)

I read somewhere that it’s good to mist orchids, so when I water her every Saturday morning with tepid tap water, I also mist leaves and flowers using a spray bottle. I leave her in the kitchen sink to drain for a few hours before sliding the pot back into the metal-lined decorative container that came with the plant. I normally keep her on the dining room table. I just measured: she’s about 6 feet from the east facing sliding glass door. I haven’t been drawing the sheers closed. In the past 2.5 months, I have never fertilized. And I haven't ventured beneath the moss layer that covers the top of the pot.

Today, I read that getting water on leaves can cause problems! Then, I read somewhere else that you should mist the leaves every time you water but make sure you don’t mist the flowers! Should I stop misting one or both? Should I pull the dining room sheers closed? Am I responsible for a fungal infection like crown rot? Or is it scale? Or mealybug (although I didn't see any little fluffy critters). Too much light, too little? Not enought air circulation, or too much draft from central air vents, etc.? Too sudden a transition to summer sun? Help!!

I think I'll ditch the decorative outer pot and stand the plastic planter pot on a dish of stones filled with enough water for humidity but not so much that it touches the planter pot. I read this on a few websites today. What do you think? And I guess I better start checking under the moss hood to see if she really does need water every Saturday morning like I was told she would.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Sleepless first-time parent in Toronto.

Annie

BikerDoc5968 · #2 06-08-2008, 09:08 AM

Not sure about the leaves...some looks like normal aging and/or early sunburn...maybe snails (leaves with light-colored marks) The dark markings on the flowers looks like mold. White flowers always look the worst ...because they're white. Wet flowers or very humid conditions can lead to this problem inside or outside. I lightly spray flowers periodically with RD-20 (Physan-20) and problem gone...especially helpful for plants summering outside under trees that can "drop" all kinds of nastiness on your plants!

caseydoll · #3 06-08-2008, 03:48 PM

I really can't offer too much advice since I consider myself a newbie at this as well.

But I would forgot the misting all together. It creates moldy spots on flowers (like what you have) and could create crown rot if the water sits in the leaf crevices too long. And it does virtually nothing to raise humidity. I only mist if I have aerial roots and then I only mist the roots and not the plant. If it was my plant I would repot it right away. The roots may be perfectly fine but I would still want to see whats going on under that moss. Watering once a week may be too much if the mix is broken down so checking the situation out would be beneficial. Just my

Tindomul · #4 06-08-2008, 11:22 PM

I would check for pests. Mites could be your culprit. Clean the leaves with a white paper towel and see if you get a red smear. Or if you have access to a powerful maginfier put a leaf under it and search for red spider mites or their eggs. In anycase, clean the leaves with alcohol thoroughly.
I dont see any sunburn. And misting is fine. When misting, your main objectives are the exposed roots, to wet them till they are green, and maybe the leaves if its a hot day or the plant is in a well ventilated room. I myself rarely mist the flowers or the leaves on purpose, but I dont avoid them either. I just go for the exposed roots and the top of the substrate, and if anything else gets wet I don't bother drying it. They say not to let water accumulate at the crown, but for me this has never been a problem because it always dries out within minutes.

Rebecca47 · #5 11-05-2015, 09:22 PM

For a window-sill grower I have a substantial collection of Phalaenopsis, 36 or so , and for the most part my plants seem to be happy, EXCEPT for having this constant battle with Soft Brown Scale and (perhaps more maddening) MEALYBUGS! I was hoping to find someone with a fool-prof remedy for getting rid of, eradicating these pests. The plants all seem to be growing well and all but a very few are sending out new bloom stems or branches on old bloom stems. I have used a commercial Insecticide as well as Insecticidal soap and my own concoction of Murphy's Oil Soap, 50% rubbing alcohol, a few drops of dish liquid, and while they have killed whatever I spray these on they do not get rid of these little buggers!

I have even thought about trying Bayer All-In-One but am unsure of the dosage/rate and even it effectiveness.

I water perhaps once a week, taking each plant to the kitchen sink, check them over, guive them a good thorough soaking and then I go after the critters with my sprays. I also do daily checks for mealybugs (I am a big fan of daily misting to keep the humidity where the plants seem to like it (60-70%). I also run small fans to keep air movement/quality high (plus it helps me breath as well). This even while doing a quick check on a old bloom stem that was trying to sprout new buds, I found it once again encrusted with mealies and the honeydew they secrete. I ended up snipping it off, taking the plant to the sink and giving it a good spray with he homemade bug juice and wiping every leaf, top and bottom to be sure I killed all the mealies and scale. I then gave all the plants on this window bench a sprat down with the bug juice. I did not see anything on most, only a mealy here and there, and they were very unceremoniously squished and wiped away.

Questions: !. what will kill these critter and NOT kill the plant. 2. Can I use the Bayer product? What rate of application (as a drench, but avoiding the foliage).

Btw the 3 windows I grow in are ENE and 2 have supplemental overhead lighting. I also have 3 or 4 plants in a 55g terrarium and my minis on a plant stand w/2 double tube shop lights. More than half are sending out bloom stems and most of these are throwing 2 stems, so they must be happy! A lot of these I have had for a couple of years and were purchased as "rescues" from one of the big box stores or supermarkets. Only one has never been re-potted - it hasn't stopped blooming since I got it this past spring ad now it is also sending out a new bloom stem!

Anxious to hear what y'all use to kill these pests.

estación seca · #6 11-05-2015, 10:18 PM

First, Welcome to the Orchid Board!

Mealy bugs hide in crevices, so you will never see all of them. If you get the alcohol into the crevices, you will indeed kill the adults, but some eggs survive. So you have to treat at several-day intervals for a couple of weeks. And if you have mealy bugs on any of your plants, they will soon spread, so you have to treat everything.

This is why many people use pesticides.

Another way to kill them is to dunk the entire plant underwater in a solution of 1 Tablespoon (15ml) dish detergent (sink dishes, not dishwasher machine) in 1 quart (liter) of water, and let them soak a couple of hours. I wouldn't recommend doing this during a cool time of the year; the plant should dry out quickly after this dunk.

turock · #7 11-05-2015, 11:52 PM

Annie T, a lot of the damage I'm seeing in these pix doesn't worry me at all. The crack in the center of the leaf, the slight spotting on the base and flowers, even the dry tip of the leaf, these can all be very normal and no cause for alarm.

White and other light-colored flowers are very vulnerable to spotting, especially if you manage to splash or drip water on the blooms, then expose them to sunlight. When you water, try to keep the water at the base of the plant, away from the blooms.

I agree with others that the spots under the leaves and the pitting on top look like insect damage, or mites. As estación seca suggested, try soaking the plant every couple of days for a while to kill any possible pests. Be sure to flush the plant with clean water after its soak to wash away any soap or insecticide you used.

All in all, the plant looks very healthy. Keep the humidity high to preserve the plant's health and deter mites. The best thing you can do is keep an eye on the damage and take a note of anything that seems to spread. Let us know if you find anything like that.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------

And, I never mist my plants, which is just an attempt to provide humidity for your plant. In my experience, there are better ways to raise humidity, such as a cool mist humidifier, humidity tray, or even a basin full of water sitting next to your plant.

Orchid Whisperer · #8 11-06-2015, 07:37 AM

@Rebecca. (Since the original post is very old)

Welcome to Orchid board!

My personal experience with mealy bugs and scale is that some treatments (alcohol, soap-based treatments) work well to kill live insects that you can see, but the problem always comes back unless you use a systemic control (such as the Bayer products you mentioned). I agree with estacion seca, you will need to treat all plants in your collection, including non-orchids kept near them, in order to stop the problem. I recommend the Bayer products you mentioned, there are several in the Bayer product line, all in blue containers, that will work. The key ingredient is Imidacloprid in all of them. Imidacloprid is also the key ingredient in Advantage brand flea treatment for dogs, except that the stuff used on dogs is hundreds of times more concentrated. The St. Augustine Orchid Society has a sheet available on their website that gives information on many insecticides, including some Bayer products; dilution instructions included.

Added later: Here is a link to the information posted by St. Augustine Orchid Society (pdf of a power point presentation):

http://staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/Or...ySueBottom.pdf

With 36 plants I would skip the ready-to-use rose & flower formula, go to one of the more concentrated formulas (Bayer 3 in 1, or Bayer Tree & Shrub) and dilute per St Aug OS. Maybe you can look at the products available in you area, and if they are different products from what is identified in the St. Aug OS information, give the concentrations of imidacloprid in those products & I can help you work out he dilutions?

For the amount of spraying (all 36 plants) you will need a gallon pump sprayer ($10 - $15 US)

To spray, you should do outdoors (just while spraying and until the plant stops dripping)

Spray the entire plant (top & bottom of each leaf, plant stem/base, roots, bark medium, everything)

You will need to repeat at 1 week intervals for at least a month. In the middle of that month, I recommend repotting everything if you can do it. Clean each plant thoroughly before repotting. Saturate the new bark with the spray before repotting.

Yeah, painful & time consuming, I know. But you can get rid of the pests.

Rebecca47 · #9 11-06-2015, 11:33 AM

. . . . All-in-One Rose &Flower Care

This is the product I have on hand, and to use it as per your suggestion I need to wait until late spring as we are now going into winter and Zone 5/4 is not a good time for the Phals to be outside! In the meantime I can start to stock pile potting media as well as. Another factor for not wanting to do this now is nearly all of the plants are putting out new blooms stems as well as new branches on the old stems! (The 18 dwarf-miniatures alone have 34 scapes!)

I do not want y'all to think that I am not aware of the insidious hiding habits of the Mealybug as I am treating "someone" every day, so everything is getting "the treatment" at least once every 7 days or so. Here is my "formula" for the deterrent I am currently using:

1 qt spray bottle:
8 oz - 50% rubbing alcohol
16 oz water
2 T Murphy's Oil Soap and
10 - 15 drops of [Dawn] dish washing liquid.

I saturate the plants with this, upper and lower sides of leaves and all. I also wipe each leaf with a soft paper towel to remove any adults - dead or not. Then they get a good spray down with warm water to flush any excess chemicals from the medium.

For now it would seem the best I can do is to continue what I have been doing. Can I safely use a stronger alcohol (70 - 90%) at the same 1:2 ratio?

Also thank you for the link, I have downloaded the article for in depth reading. Thank you all for th advise.

As for misting and why I do so; besides increasing the humidity it also insures my collection is getting need moisture in between trips to the sink for a thorough watering. The plants respond by growing well, sending out many aerial roots and being able to fight this mealybug/scale problem and still be able to produce blooms. I mist at least once a day in the warm months, but several times a day when the heat is on. Now if I were growing them in a greenhouse or sun-room I probably would not need to as many plants kept together will raise the ambient humidity as well as temperature to a comfortable level for the plants. Misting is not for everyone, so do what works!

Rebecca

Cym Ladye · #10 11-06-2015, 12:33 PM

I have successfully used the Bayer 3 and 1 - Insect & mite control on Cyms, masd, phals, paphs, phrags and zygos at the strength recommended on the bottle with no damage to the plants.