3 phals, 3 types of spots

[SundayGardener]

Hello,

I have a few things going on with different phals (2 NOIDs and one phal equestris).

The first is on a phal in semihydro. It's on a few phals in SH, not just this one. Initially I thought maybe too much sun, but then very slowly the leaf would be consumed, dry up and fall off. Then I thought fungus, and tried Cleary's but that only seemed to accelerate the spread and kill the leaf off faster. It's very slow, and takes the upper leaves. Looking for thoughts on what it is and how to treat. I included an image of the underside of the leaf, because it sometimes shows up there first (which is why I was thinking fungus).

The second is also a NOID in SH, but the spots are different and don't seem to do anything. Too much sun? Something more insidious?

The third is the equestris which had been fine until 2 weeks ago and now has these yellow blotches. It has been under T5HO for months, but I did try to move it to more shaded location. With the change in seasons, outside light from the window may be upping the intensity. I think this one more than the other 2 is related to change, possibly in temperature or light? I have other phals right next to it that are fine.

[aliceinwl]

They do kind of look like some of the photos I’ve seen of orchid fleck virus. I guess my inclination would be to isolate the affected plants and play with lighting, temperature, and media and see if it self corrects in case it is due to environmental issues.

[orchidwitch]

I agree about the fleck virus. I would do a super thorough inspection for mites, since that is how it's usually spread.

[Swimmingorchids]

I will blame the semi hydro. I'd ditch it. If you research it properly you will find the people that claim it works show off plants straight out the shop. Can take 2 months for problems to show.

It can work but never as well as pretty much any other method... Stick them in some bark. I know nothing about the fleck virus so it might be a lost cause but that is what I would do.

edit: ok looking at your picture it looks like you are not doing the semi hydro I thought you were doing. One of the plants looks like its potted in soil standing in a bowl of constant water.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Swimmingorchids

I will blame the semi hydro. I'd ditch it. If you research it properly you will find the people that claim it works show off plants straight out the shop. Can take 2 months for problems to show.

It can work but never as well as pretty much any other method... Stick them in some bark. I know nothing about the fleck virus so it might be a lost cause but that is what I would do.

edit: ok looking at your picture it looks like you are not doing the semi hydro I thought you were doing. One of the plants looks like its potted in soil standing in a bowl of constant water.

OK, Swimmie. Now you've gone too far. I've been trying to be nice, but now you must be talking out of a part of your body that normally doesn't issue words, as you obviously don't know what you're taking about. If I wanted to state that more kindly, I'd say "teaching more than you know."

I have been growing plants in semi-hydroponics for about 30-35 years. Tropical plants, orchids, even herbs and vegetables. If you know what you're doing, understand the needs of the particular plant, and understand how semi-hydro culture and the rest of your cultural parameters interact to provide the growing environment, it is a very viable technique and quite a few plants grown that way have been awarded.

In our earlier "discussions" about stuff you know less about that you purport, I mentioned plants that grow and multiply quickly, and they were all in S/H.

I have no doubt that your comments are - again - due to your lack of experience with orchids, but please understand that NO growing technique is universal. What works for one might be certain death for another. When I grew in a warm, humid greenhouse in PA, all of my phalaenopsis plants were in S/H culture and thrived. Now that we downsized to NC and I am a windowsill grower again, I have switched them all to sphagnum, as in the winter, S/H is too cold for the root system due to the dry air and the associated evaporative cooling. My paphs and phrags however, are still in S/H and growing like weeds.

The bottom line is that any plant can be grown well in semi-hydroponic culture, but that does not mean that any individual can do so.

I invented the technique, so likely have more experience with it than anyone else, but there are plants I have never been successful with, while others tell you the same plant is the idea beginner plant.

Please stick to discussing things you know, and not your half-baked assumptions and suppositions.

[SundayGardener]

Some are in semihydro and some are in bark (not in soil). The ones in bark are never standing in water, but my pictures may look that way.

At this point, they have been treated with Bayer for potential mites/mealies/scale. I actually treated everything with Bayer the last time around to cover all bases. Allowing time in between treatments, I have also swabbed the spots with Mancozeb.

After one of the plants lost its last leaf, I threw it out. The equistris with the pale yellow spots seems to have rebounded after I moved it to a different location. I have one or two that continue to get worse, with leaves falling off, and others that seem stable.

I'll look into fleck virus. With a few exceptions, these are primarily noids, but I'm pretty sad that my favorite noid phal of all time caught the plague.

As for the semi hydro, the ones that are in it have been in it for a year now. Interestingly for me, I thought that having them in SH might make fall and spring transitions easier (the phals always seem to go to pieces with significant changes in weather). That did not happen, but I don't think it is related to SH, I think it is more related to different ailments and my having trouble identifying them and treating them properly in a timely manner. Previously I was doing Bayer once a year, in the fall, with followups as I thought required, but now I am planning on a minimum of twice annually. I also have azamax which I haven't tried yet. I do use cinnamon on phals (leaves only, not roots).

[Dollythehun]

Ok. I think I am reasonably careful in my culture. However, so much mechanical damage, or insect damage CAN look like disease, my head starts to spin. After this post, I pitched 3 plants. I have been using Ray's Concentric Ag on a few others. I am not a member of the fan club, nor does Ray pay me to say this but, I think the stuff works. The reason I waited so long was that I thought I had damage from Stink bugs, which are for us, a most annoying, destructive pest. So, Sundaygardener, I guess we're in the same club. Like WW, I've been growing a long time and learned something new today (sadly).

[WaterWitchin]

Sadly, I'm still not sure what I've learned. Other than my head continues to spin on the topic of virus vs bacterial vs fungus and knowing what's what. Oh... and finding out there's a Ray fan club.

You think the Concentric Ag works Dolly? I might just give that a whirl. My understanding, it's an "immunity booster" and not an actual treatment, correct? After all, you're the one who convinced me to try fertilizing more than once in a blue moon, after seeing how well plants bloom in your care. Perhaps I'll start a Dolly Fan club.

[SundayGardener]

The more I read about viruses, the more depressed I get! Especially when I think of opportunities missed...I am convinced that this virus first appeared on a coelgyne. I treated it with Cleary's and waited. Then I saw scale and I treated it for that and waited. It's so hard when an orchid is still putting out new growths, but seeing the new leaves succumb convinced me to dispose of that plant. NOW I really wish I had disposed of it at the first sign of trouble.

In general, I've had the most problems with phals and dendros (I'm not including oncidiums because I just hate them at this point). I won't buy anymore of these.

The equestris still has yellow spots, but not as pronounced and now it up and bloomed so of course I'll wait. The other phals with the worst damage and with damage on new leaves are going. It's a real battle each time to convince myself that disposal is the best action to take. Trying to focus on doing what is right for my little orchid community as a whole. I can be happy if I don't lose everything...

I think I may have pictures of that coelgyne, I'll post later.

[WaterWitchin]

Agreed! The more I read, the more confused I become. And truly understand not wanting to pitch. Do separate from the rest, regardless. Can't hurt.