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  #11  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:25 AM
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neophyte neophyte is offline
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Zoizikid, none of us are trying to discourage or inhibit you. It's just that if you ever try to get these plants awarded, they need formal, definitive IDs, which should come with the plant when you buy them.

There are many, many orchid producers out there whose only job is to churn out thousands of new clones and crosses of orchids, all with no names. The outcome is that there are many similar-looking orchids with no definitive ID. Regarding the scent, there are several Oncidium species with various scents and many, many different offspring.

So of course you can enjoy your orchids and give them names if you want. If you ever decide to get one of your plants awarded at a formal orchid society, however, you can only submit one of your formally labeled plants.

For this reason, it's just a convention to label your unidentified plants "No ID" or "Looks like [named variety]" or some fun name dear to your heart.

Here at the forum, we can usually help you figure out the genus name, ie., Wilsonara, which is usually sufficient to help you figure out its specific requirements.

I hope this has helped have fun growing!
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoizikid View Post
and i keep looking for the rest.
zoizi ------ getting an I.D. for an orchid that currently has no tag or id is generally very difficult ...... or can even be pretty much impossible.

If the orchid just so-happens to recognised, and somebody happens to pay for a DNA matching test, then that's one way of identifying an orchid (to show that it is what it is guessed to be) ---- but that would require some foresight, where the no-id is suspected of being a particular orchid.

In many cases, there's no such break or no such luck, especially for hybrids (crosses) ----- (except, again for cases where a particular no-id is suspected of being a particular cultivar plant ----- so a DNA matching test would then need to be done, which would need to be paid for).

So - in general ----- if an orchid has no-id, then chances of identifying it is going to be very low. And 'identification' will not mean 'guessing'. Identification means 100% certain.

Not having an I.D. for an orchid is quite ok in my mind.

Although - having correct ID is important for orchid breeders, and for those people that participate in orchid contests.

Now - as we know - some mystery can be nice. And also - it is people that give orchids 'names' and 'labels'. But if we love orchids for what they are ------ then we can generally not worry about the name, and just enjoy their beauty/colour/shape etc.


Last edited by SouthPark; 03-20-2020 at 10:55 PM..
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:18 PM
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WaterWitchin WaterWitchin is offline
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Welcome to Orchid Board Zoizoikid! I hope you don't decide to stop stopping by. You have been given a lot of good information, albeit delivered in different ways. That's what makes humans interesting.

As Early says, sometimes communication on a written board as opposed to a personal conversation can translate different meanings to different people. Here, you'll get differing degrees of answers from different folks, depending on skill level, years of growing, and what matters to each individual person who responds. That's why some say 'I have no idea, but nice blooms!' all the way to a discussion about genetics, intergenetics, etc, etc.

The individuals who are really into showing, breeding, and attempting to make a new cross they can get recognized and named will give you a much different answer than someone who says nice blooms. It's similar to someone who breeds pedigreed show dogs. They might be able to generally tell you nice Standard Poodle, but it's still gonna be a mutt (NOID) without those papers.

What folks are trying to tell you is you can guess, come close, but you're never gonna put an un-papered dog in a dog show and win. No papers, no dog show. That's the point those who breed and/or show orchids are trying to tell you.

As someone here said... you can get close, like "looks like" a Wilsonara. Wilsonara is a cross between Cochlioda, Odontoglossum and Oncidium. Some Wilsonara take on more characteristics of a Cochlioda, some Ondontoglossum.

Sharry Baby is a grex from Onc. Jamie Sutton x Onc. Honolulu. Its species composition is: Onc. leucochilum (38%) + Onc. anthocrene (25%) + Onc. sotoanum (25%) + Onc. altissimum (13%).

That stuff ALL matters to some folks. Me? Not so much. I have to research, and could care less. If I have a Wilsonara, I know to treat it similar to an Oncidium and move on. If you want to name it, of course you can call it whatever you want. You can call it Oncidium Sammy if you desire. It's your plant.

I've been around OB long enough to know some will say "looks like," some will say "Oncidium Tribe," some will say "Hey, I have one that looks just like that and it's an Onc. Sharry Baby 'Blueberry Twilight!"

Hopefully, I'm pointing out the variance in responses and the "whys" instead of just ticking you off.

---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

Having said that, I don't see anything that looks like a Sharry Baby to me either. And I think that's very likely some sort of Wilsonara. Is it Wils. Eye Candy Pinkie? I don't think so.

See how different the shading is on the upper "petals" of the two Wils. Eye Candy Pinkie are different than yours? See how the shape of the "bottom petal" is different? Subtle, but important. That's why "looks like" and naming an unknown with conviction are two different things. It may not mean a hill of beans to you, but it's very important to someone else. Again, not me. It's part of the fun of many different individuals having different views. It can expand our horizons if we let it.

Example 1:


Example 2:


Your Orchid:
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:44 PM
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Thanks WW. I learned a lot about how to look at different orchids, and see the subtle differences. If you remember, not so long ago, I got all excited about two new Onc's but was sure they were a cattleya because I found a picture just like the blooms I just purchased as a NoID. Ray suggested it an onc. and that it might be part of what is called a mule ear based on the leaves. I took that might be as gospel, and in a later post mentioned Ray Said, which he quickly corrected me.
Raising orchids is a big learning curve for me. I have told friends...on the phone... my years of nursing school and all I had to learn, may be easier than becoming educated about orchids. That is why I have stuck to Phals and Oncs.

But now I want a "blue blaze" zygopetalum but that won't be til summer and I might get a seedling from Hawaii, or some other reputable grower state side.
And for Zoi, come on back, We need some young blood here and during this crisis of the virus, it is something to keep our minds occupied.
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2020, 08:24 PM
Zoizikid Zoizikid is offline
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Hello everyone again.
I am going yo work on my profile the next days.
I am 26 from Greece i am living in the Netherlands in delft exactly in the middle of dutch orchid nurseries with hybrids and most of my plants are right away from the sourse.
Now first i may misunderstood the intentions.
I am in this forum because i want to learn.
I have study a lot about orchids the last months, i know what a hybrid is , iknow what is going on with crossing with market names with registered names etc.
Thank you for all answers and interesting you showed.
I only mats with label plants which looks identical to me. Other wise i just write down looks like etc. But it is just for me. Not for shows ... The wilsonara in which i mention before i continue believe its the wilsonara eye candy pinkie as the bloom is exactly the same i will explain to my next post about the identification i make.
Speaking for persentages if a parent of a parent of a parent of a plant is not exactly the same and it has 95% the same dna with the one registered i will keep saying that with the registered name, just for my self. If there are obvious differences i would not call it like that.
I am hear only to learn and sorry if i was some kind of rude.
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2020, 08:52 PM
Zoizikid Zoizikid is offline
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Well as i said i tried to find the name of that wilsonara.

first i observed that in wilsonara eye candy pincie there are mainly 3 patterns of flowers. the one that in the lip is mainly white, the one that has that red drop and one that that drop is seperated and i find that pattern in my blooms also. i attach first the wilsonara eye candy pinkie and then my wilsonara.

Secondly, i discover there is a pink line around the flowers which are in both blooms.

Third, i look at the shapes of the dark red spots which are also identical.

Then, i saw that the background color is a pale pink-yellow.

i also look at the pattern of leaves and the shape of pseudobulb.

yes dna talking maybe it is not the same. but i cant find obvious differences.

and maybe that is why i get a little bit angry with the comment said : i have the wilsonara eye candie pinkie and there is no one in your fotos.
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  #17  
Old 03-21-2020, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoizikid View Post
Speaking for persentages if a parent of a parent of a parent of a plant is not exactly the same and it has 95% the same dna with the one registered i will keep saying that with the registered name, just for my self.
Zoizi ..... I think all this just boils down to the understanding of copying of a particular individual (cultivar) orchid.

In general - a 100% copy can be done by physically dividing a large enough orchid - so basically split 1 plant into two (or more), and then letting each of these divided ones grow by themselves.

The other way is via a cloning process (mericloning or meristem propagation technique) - which involves lab work. Apparently you can get 100% copies from this technique, but there can and will be cases where some of the created plants (from this process) might not be 100% ----- ie. mutation can occur at least sometimes ----- and the chances of having more 'unwanted' results (ie. mutation) apparently occurs when people try to clone the 'clones' (ie. using the first batch of clones to produce more clones).

In any case - a 'clone' should be defined as a perfect replica (ie. 100% dna match). Any differences in dna ---- means not a clone.

So - in the identification of an orchid having no tag --- it is not really ok (from the standpoint of formal scientific identification) to say that the no-id orchid IS a particular 'cultivar' (ie. particular orchid) based on appearance alone.

However - a DNA check that matches up 100% with a confirmed orchid of that name ----- will mean successful identification.

Definitely - we must throw out emotion etc. This is purely about identification.

Also - we also know that out there - in some nurseries - there are certainly orchids being sold with wrong names on their tags. We also have to remember that - if we purchase a mutated version of a particular plant, then that mutated plant is no longer the same as the original (in terms of DNA) - so the name can't be the same, even if appearances are visually the same (between mutated and non-mutated plants).


Last edited by SouthPark; 03-21-2020 at 09:56 PM..
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