Red Blotch on Ameryllis Bulbs?

[katsrevenge]

I've had several bulbs for a few years now. This year I wanted to not thin them out so much during bloom. I started them in soil instead of a bulb vase and water. It's supposed to keep them fatter...fatter bulbs are happiest, right?

I overwatered. Ended up with one a bit squishy and the other two have a bad case of red splotch. I've cleaned and bleached them all. Now I'm spraying them with neem in the day time, being sure the fluid gets deep into the throats. The blotches still are coming back on one badly, the other is... hit or miss. The one that was just squishy seems ok.

Even worse... all three have blooms-to-be still growing. Leaves are still coming up. One has roots. This is good, right?

Realistically, what is the survival rate for this? They look so pathetic.

[Dollythehun]

Apologies, but I'm confused by your wording. What "throats" are you spraying? Continued spraying is not good either. Without clarification or best a picture, all I can say is, my bulbs often have red spots. They bloom fine.
Starting them in water or waxed seems to be the new thing. What makes fatter bulbs is food and lots of sun after blooming, then the fall dry rest.
Pictures would be very helpful.

[Leafmite]

You are going to need a real copper based systemic fungicide to take care of the issue. I found this:

Diseases of Amaryllis | Home Guides | SF Gate

To keep them healthy and blooming, make certain that, when they have leaves, they are given good light and fertilizer. I put mine outside in full sun during the summer but a good grow light will do, too. With bulbs, it is important to make certain that the medium drains well. I like to add extra perlite and sand to the miracle-grow potting mix.

Remember, if this batch dies, there is always next year's holiday season...

[Dollythehun]

Interesting Leafmite. My reddish spots are obviously not disease. I care for mine as you do but with limited space I eventually discard them in favor of a new type.

I would recommend just starting over unless they are heirlooms.

[estación seca]

Florist's amaryllis is the name for Hippeastrum hybrids and species. They are in the plant family Amaryllidaceae, hence the name. Genus Amaryllis consists of just two species from the winter-rainfall regions of South Africa. These are the "naked ladies" blooming in August in California from bare earth, A. belladonna. (The fall-blooming "naked ladies" in colder-winter climates are Lycoris squamigera, in the same plant family. Interstingly, there are almost no places where both Amaryllis belladonna and Lycoris squamigera will grow and flower. They require very different climates.) All Hippeastrum species are from the Americas, central to south.

I'm going to write a bunch of stuff I learned years ago from the Amaryllis Society E-mail circular.

A rust infects Hippeastrum bulbs when weather is wet and humid. I don't have it here in the Southwest. Most trouble with Hippeastrum is related to keeping them too wet. The rust is probably not what is causing yours to mush out.

Even if the central meristem is dead, so long as a piece of basal plate (which is a compressed stem) remains alive, it can recover. This can take many years. There is a meristem, a potential growth point, on the basal plate above each scale (which is a leaf.)

There is a severe pest which kills Narcissus and Hippeastrum. It is called the amaryllis or narcissus fly. There are actually two species. The adult lays eggs in the center of the leaves. Larvae hatch and burrow into the bulb. Rot follows in their wake. I know this pest is in the US, but I don't know whether it is in your area. People in affected areas often give up growing daffodils and Hippeastrum because it's so hard to prevent infestation.

I'm going to address trying to save the bulb, not treat for rust. leafmite addressed that.

Take a small spoon and continue scooping mushy tissue out until you dig into firm tissue. If the entire basal plate is mush, just throw it away. You might or might not find some insect grubs. They might already have hatched, or the rot could have been caused by overwatering.

Dust the plant with bordeaux mixture powder, which you can buy at a nursery that sells things for home fruit growers. This is a copper-containing powder.

Let the bulb dry for a few days. If the mush progresses, scoop some more, dust and let dry again.

Once the mush has stopped progressing, set the bulb on top of a pot of coarse builder's sand. Just nestle the very bottom 1/4" / 5-7mm of the bulb into the sand. Don't plant it deeper at this stage, or it is likely to rot. Water it once. Then, water once a week, letting the top of the sand dry out between. The plant needs to make more roots if it is to survive. If you keep it wet before there are roots, what remains will rot. Keep it warm, and in bright shade. If there is a cavity you scooped out of the bulb, do not let water get in there.

It may take weeks or months, but a small leaf may emerge from the center, or from the periphery of the bulb. It might look like a blade of grass. Don't mistake it for a weed. From this point water the plant once a week, and let the sand get almost dry between waterings. Also begin fertilizing. They are heavy feeders.

The plant will get bigger and bigger. Eventually, if you take care of it, it will flower again.

Now - how to grow them properly, so they flower every year?

Almost everything you've been taught is wrong. As a result, people, with the best intentions, make life difficult for these very-easy-to-grow plants.

All plants in the Amaryllidaceae have perennial, thick, fleshy white roots. These roots remain alive in the wild, even through their long dormant period. They suffer greatly if the roots die, and frequently don't bloom again for one or more years after the roots regrow. They prefer very large pots and big root runs. Some members of Amaryllidaceae are almost impossible to flower in a pot a gardener could lift. Just like orchids, the bigger the roots system, the healthier the plant, and the better the flowers.

Look carefully at a Hippeastrum bulb (or onion, or daffodil, or hyacinth, or any true bulb) next time you see one in a garden center. There is a flat part, from which roots emerge. This is the growth plate. The round part above is a series of overlapping, modified storage leaf bases.

There is a widespread myth Hippeastrum like to be confined to small pots. This is among the most completely wrong garden myths in existence. Many members of the Amaryllis Society recommend planting a single Hippeastrum bulb into nothing smaller than a 3 gallon pot! I think the small pot myth was started by sales people who realized they wouldn't be able to sell something that prefers a large pot. Hippeastrums in large pots offset profusely, and make an enormous display very quickly. In practice, they can grow and flower in a 1-gallon / 3.78 liter pot for many years, but they rarely have more than one or two spikes per bulb. And, in smaller pots, like a 1-gallon, they don't offset much.

Hybrid Hippeastrum naturally flower in the spring. Plants you buy in the fall have been treated for forcing, so they flower as soon as brought into warmth. Most of the time all of their roots have been trimmed off, or are dead. These bulbs cannot take up water. Despite what the packages say, you should not keep these bulbs wet. They don't have any roots. If you keep them in a typical home, you should keep the medium barely moist, to encourage rooting. The plants make the spike and flower from water stored in the bulb.

After the flower has faded, you need to repot it to something suitable. The coco fiber it came with is not good. Amaryllis Society members recommend using 100% coarse sand. The main thing is a high-mineral mix that drains well, but retains moisture at all times. Bagged potting mixes, mostly sawdust from sawmills ("composted forest products") frequently lead to rot. A 3-gallon pot of coarse sand is very heavy.

Set the bulb just on the surface of the sand, with the growth plate just under the surface. This is the depth at which most species grow in habitat. If you bury the bulb deeper than its equator, it blooms a lot less. The thinking is the side pressure of the soil damages the tiny spike inside the scales. Water as mentioned above for saving the plant. Leaves will emerge from a healthy bulb before roots grow, so don't water much until you gently move the bulb, and it resists.

Let them almost dry out between waterings. Water and fertilize heavily when in growth. They probably will not flower the spring after their first forced flowering, but large bulbs might do so.

The next fall, do not remove them from their pots for storage. Never cut off roots. Put the pots somewhere cool and bright. Water lightly about once a month or two, depending on the temperatures; just enough to keep the roots alive. The tops should not die off completely.

The next spring put them someplace warm and bright. Resume heavy watering after they've been warm for a week. You should get flowers.

Large plants can be forced to flower at any time of the year. They will flower 12 weeks after beginning the process. Uproot the entire clump of bulbs and roots, if growing in the ground. Or, slide the clump out of the pot. Whichever you do, set it on its side in the shade, and keep it dry for 6 weeks. This mimics the dry winter spell in habitat. Then replant the clump and resume watering. The clump will flower 6 weeks after resuming watering. Leaving them dry in the pot upright seems not to work; they have to be dry on their sides.

You may get seed. It is flat and black, with an obvious embryo swelling, if it is viable. Sprout by placing flat on the surface of sand. Water with chamomile tea, which has antifungal properties. Keep the sand quite moist. Or, float the flat seeds in a glass of chamomile tea, until white roots emerge, and point down into the glass. Set these emerging seedlings on top of sand wet with chamomile tea, so the roots enter the sand, and the seed is on the surface. Continue watering with chamomile tea until the first two leaves are up and growing. Many hybrids will self-pollinate, but the species generally will not.

[katsrevenge]

Wow, this is a lot more response than I expected, thank you all.
I have learned I'm doing it wrong. I won't be slicing roots off anymore and I will get bigger pots for the bulbs to bloom in. I'm thinking azalea clay pots.
So, pictures. OK.
This is what I started with, right after I saw there was sickness:

This is what I'm working with now.


They are actually looking slightly better after the bleach dip. I had already cleaned off all the red and rot, red came back, I cleaned them again, this time dipping each in a bleach solution for a few minutes. (found the recommendation on an amaryllis grower's page)

I used cinnamon on the rot, that was only the one bulb. It was at the soil line...and that was my fault, was a heavy peat mix, never dried out. They are all now sitting on cactus mix. I've been misting the neck (throat? stem base?) of the plant with the neem oil 3 in 1 mix once a day. It's where most of the red is.

All three have hard basal plates.

No wax (the horror), I just sat them in some old bulb vases I'd gotten from the thrift shop with water and a smidge of plant food. After blooming I'd stick them ll in a large pot and then toss it outside. I'd then feed heavily all summer. I had a lot of issues with snails this summer, it didn't work as well as it has in the past. I even lost a small one. That's why I wanted to try soil this year. Still, they were all happy enough with the food to produce a new scape this year.

I have a copper based powder.... somewhere... I just can't find it. I'm somewhat limited to what I can use, I grow in the kitchen, in a house with fish, cats, a dog and another human.

Right now they are sitting on the part of the grow table with a steady breeze. I even turned the heat up in the kitchen. I don't think my home is humid, I can't keep phal air roots green here. I think I've covered everything... :/

Does anyone have any favorite sources for these bulbs? I didn't get them at the holidays, I got them in early spring (so I'd have fancy flowers around my birthday, LOL) but can't find anything anywhere yet.
Finally, this one is my favorite. The others are just regular red and white respectively.

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[Dollythehun]

I like the selection and quality at John Scheepers. However, I'm sure ES has other sources.

[estación seca]

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

I like the selection and quality at John Scheepers. However, I'm sure ES has other sources.

Nope. Seed of various Hippeastrum species is occasionally offered on the bulb seed exchange of the Pacific Bulb Society, which exchange is open to members only. Non-members are free to browse the E-mail discussion and species photos, accessible via pacificbulbsociety.org .

[katsrevenge]

It's OK, looks like everything there is out of stock anyways. Some of the box stores have them on websites... though I swear they sold them with tulips and stuff in the past. It would have been when I would have bought them. Weird.

[estación seca]

Hipps tend to be dug for sale in the fall only. There might be a few tired ones that didn't sell if you go to the store in person. If you get on good terms with your local family-owned nursery they may be able to order some nice ones for delivery next fall.