Global meltdown

[Ross]

Thanks for this Tindo. While not so worried about myself, I am terribly worried for my grandchildren. All I have to worry about is lack of food, lack of fuel, no beaches in Florida, etc. My grandchildren may experience a world like no human being has seen so far. Who knows?

[shakkai]

Tin,

The best one, I think, is:

"The New Complete Book of Self-Sufficiency" by John Seymour (Amazon link)

"Self Reliance: A Recipe For The New Millennium" by John Yoeman (Amazon link) is another really good one that covers quite a range of topics including preparations to make and actions to take in case of any kind of disaster.

Quote from the back of the book:

"This is not a 'black book' of survival. It is intended as an introduction to self reliance, showing tested, practical and often entertaining ways to escape the mindset of helplessness and the chains of habit forged for all of us by the consumer society. It guarantees not only an improvement in the odds but also, if you follow its suggestions and experiments, a vast improvement on your own self-confidence. Because in the worst scenario, you will endure - and endure well."

Also recommended, but a bit heavy on theory and 'principles', is "Permaculture" by David Holmgren (Amazon link)

The 12 design priniciples of Permaculture (from the book) are:

1. Observe and Interact - "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
2. Catch and Store Energy - "Make hay while the sun shines."
3. Obtain a Yield - "You can't work on an empty stomach."
4. Apply Self-regulation and Accept Feedback - "The sins of the fathers are visited on the children unto the seventh generation."
5. Use and Value Renewable Resources and Services - "Let nature take its course."
6. Produce No Waste - "Waste not, want not."
7. Design from Patterns to Details - "Can't see the wood for the trees."
8. Integrate Rather than Segregate - "Many hands make light work."
9.Use Small and Slow Solutions - "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." and "Slow and steady wins the race."
10. Use and Value Diversity - "Don't put all of your eggs in one basket."
11. Use Edges and Value the Marginal - "Don't think you are on the right track just because it is a well beaten path."
12. Creatively Use and Respond to Change - "Vision is not seeing things as they are but as they will be."

The book devotes a chapter to each priniciple.

[kiki-do]

Global warming is happening now. If we aren't noticing it, then our heads are stuck in the ground. Every corner of the earth is being affected. Even areas that are untapped by humans are now starting to suffer. There's been ample studies about the polar bears' habitats slowly disintegrating...about the mutations of frogs, about bees disappearing, el nino (sp), winters are milder, summers are hotter. It's affecting everyone, but ever so slight that no one wants to notice. No one wants to be inconvenienced. We all want to live without inconvenience. After a while, it's going to bite us all in the ass. We should all be feeling a little nip about now.
No one can point fingers, we are all guilty. I'm guilty.
It's just basic math. If we keep taking from the earth and not replenishing, it dies. Yes, I am very concerned. My little efforts to recycle each week is just not enough! However, I'm re-evaluating my lifestyle each day. I try not to do things on a whim, but to conserve. Everyone has to do that, and everyone has to look within instead of pointing fingers. Global warming didn't happen overnight, but our habits need to be addressed, like yesterday! This is not an easy subject and no easy answers. I may be naive but I think we can do this if we all pitched in. The first thing is to get educated on the facts and not just ignor what is happening or say it isn't happening. If there are enough voices, then and only then, does corporate business understand we want accountability for our one and only earth. kiki-do

[gmdiaz]

Originally Posted by watsgw1155

Make no mistake; anyone who has lived in FL, IL, CO, CA and pretty much any other state has seen a change - especially when it comes to plant life.

So true, we've had terrible droughts and lots of wildfires. The landscape in my neck of the woods is changing for sure. Ironically, I've heard that we can actually expect more snow but that overall the water table will be lower than usual. I expect that to continue.

The forests are thinning out a bit. . .only the toughest, most established trees seem to make it. While this alarms me, we were way over-wooded (that can't be a word!) due to previous year's policies to prevent wildlfires. . .so we were already out of balance going into the climate changes.

The world will balance out in time but oh my God, the effects it will have on all living things. I think we have squandered our most precious gifts & I worry about what the world will be like for future generations. I don't think we have a real clue about the degree of change coming. I think it could well be a real shocker. . .we'll get on the ball at the last moment and. . .

I guess we'll all do what we can and more than we thought we could. . .we'll be as strong as we need to be.

Shame about the USA's lack of leadership. . .and I mean that. What a terrible time in history to have this administration in power. I do not like the direction that we're going.

[Marco]

We're all going to roast and all the folks down at wall street who only care about an increase in net profit and improve efficiency will realize that all their efforts to get a sweet bonus will be all for nothing because their push for efficiency and cost saving procedures requires building new machines, new cheaper paper, new better bulbs, new faster better computers adds to the global warming issue. And where we do put all the old machines, paper, bulbs, and computers?

I was watching this episode on TV about the new green line trains here in New York City. The new trains are fantastic. They're quick, cool in the summer and warm in the winter, and they have the nifty energy saving fluorescent bulbs which provides for great lighting. When it came to the point as to where they dump the old trains. Well that was straight into the Hudson. And their rational was "It will provide a home for the fish in the water" Those guys deserve a medal. What they failed to mention was the metal corrodes. Rust in the water where fish that we eat live. This is the same water that coastal cities purify so we can get some drinking water. And the solution to purify is to get XYZ Company to build some high tech water purifier where more greenhouse gases are made in producing the product than how much the purifier really helps us.

Cheers to capitalism. I love you. You provided me with a way in which to work and earn my way into a better living and a higher tax bracket. You have provided me a working toilet that efficiently and effectively flushes my problems away with the simple push of a lever. It makes my nights in a state of drunken stupor so much easier. You provided the 32" LCD TV in my room that I use to watch the gazelles roam in Africa on discovery channel, anime on the cartoon channel, and some cartoons on the Nikolodeon channel too. You provided the lamps that I use to help my keep my neos healthy and living. You provided me with the insecticides I've used recently to get rid of my mite problem. Some of which went down my sink. Some of which I inhaled because I'm trying to do my piece in helping out the environment.

Cheers to Ben Bernake. I love you and I love what you've done with the federal rate cuts. Your dunce cap is a whole lot taller than mine I am deeply jealous. Maybe you sniffed a whole lot more insecticide than I have. You've done us all a great help. You're my hero.

Cheers to me and you and all the other folks that live in a modern world who can't live without the luxuries we own.

I love my life, capitalism and all, and all the things that make it simple. I'm only a single thread in the complicated tapestry that is this problem of Global Warming. I accept my fate and I live happily knowing that I may have to endure the problems that entail this life of luxury.

[ospylac]

Again, Thanks Tindo for a good thread.
The thoughts previously posted on the sad state of our nations leaders mirror my own. Reading Jared Diamond's book called Collapse. He describes global warming as only one of twelve different problems that are threatening humanity. Overpopulation is a big issue, but the real issue here is over consumption.

[weng]

Global Warming ?

I 'm no scientist, but being an accountant, I understand data. Have a look at the earth's temperature graph for the last 65 million years
Image:65 Myr Climate Change.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is this graph upsidedown or just plain wrong ?

With all the hoo-ha, wouldn't you expect record temperatures to be recorded in this century? Have a look at the data
Hottest Temperature on Earth

Are these facts totally out of date or what ?

Weng

[shakkai]

I agree, great thread Tin! And really good points that people have brought out. One that hasn't been mentioned is food production. Intensive farming has meant that we cannot raise our food without loads of chemicals, pesticides, antibiotics, and hormones. With all of that stuff going into the food that we eat, no wonder allergies are becoming more of a problem for more and more people.

Overpopulation is a big issue, and it is contributing to overconsumption in a big way - as people in China and India achieve more economic growth, they want all of those things that they see in the movies and TV shows from the West. What kind of example are we (developed nations) setting?

You know, I always chuckle when I hear friends in the US talk about the outrageous price of gasoline (petrol). Petrol here has been close to £1 a litre for quite some time and recently has increased so that it is now over £1 a litre. Now £1 = $2.09, and there are 4.5 litres in a US gallon - that makes the equivalent cost here $9.40 per gallon.

For too long the West has funded over consumption with cheap (and/or easily available) credit, that is certainly now starting to bite us, with the US economy in a mess which has a knock-on effect around the world. There was a run on one of the banks here (Northern Rock) with people queuing up to get all of their saving out because the bank was having difficulties with the sub-prime mortage debt.

Everything in today's world is interrelated - everything has a knock on effect - every action or inaction by every one of us makes a difference, and when everyone realises this, then we will start to see changes - if those changes aren't forced on us sooner.

[Magnus A]

Hi weng

You hav to remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that has no editorial control of the quality of the facts in Wikipedia.


For all,

For climate change facts, there is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change homepage, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change . Everything that they print have ALL members agreed on to be the consensus of todays knowledge in the field!

Read this Mandate and Membership of the IPCC About IPCC so you can see what kind of organisation IPCC is before you neglect the facts.


/Magnus

[Dorothy]

Did anyone see John Stossel on 20/20 - I find this interesting - Stossel Takes on Gore/IPCC on 20/20 > Logan Utah, Cache Valley, Bridgerland, Local Community Forums, News and Information > Bridgerland, Logan Utah, Cache Valley Utah


Just thought I would throw this in here since the IPCC was mentioned.

BTW - Good to see you Marco! Happy Belated Birthday