Two More Noids

[Mick Gooch]

I am wondering if these are species, if so what. I realise that a hybrid id would be more difficult - just wonder if they are species. I had the pink one but it died, want to replace it but have no idea about parentage or similar flowers

[orchidhunter]

The first one looks like a Cattleya nobilior to me:

Did it flower from a smaller, mutant-looking pseudobulb instead of from the large leafy ones?

The second one is gorgeous, but I have no idea what it could be. Don't think it's a species, though.

[orchidhunter]

Actually, perhaps someone can clear this up for me - what is the difference between C. nobilior and C. walkeriana? I've also seen C. nobilior listed as C. walkeriana var. nobilior. According to the IOSPE entry for nobilior (IOSPE PHOTOS), it is bifoliate whereas walkeriana is unifoliate. But any way to tell just from the flowers?

[Mick Gooch]

I think you are brilliant !! Yes a search of C. nobilior on the net reveals several clones that look very much like my battered beauty :-) It did indeed bloom from a very decrepit pseudobulb - many thanks for you interest

Regards
Mick
6/04/2008

[orchidhunter]

Aww, shucks. :blush: Then it's C. nobilior or C. walkeriana for sure. To my knowledge they are the only catts to make a dedicated leafless pseudobulb just for the inflorescence. If it has one leaf per pseudobulb, it's walkeriana, if it has two, it is nobilior. Case closed. As for the other one, I'd like to venture C. bicolor for ancestry at least, but I'm not very confident.

[orchidhunter]

Originally Posted by orchidhunter

Aww, shucks. :blush: Then it's C. nobilior or C. walkeriana for sure. To my knowledge they are the only catts to make a dedicated leafless pseudobulb just for the inflorescence. If it has one leaf per pseudobulb, it's walkeriana, if it has two, it is nobilior. Case closed. As for the other one, I'd like to venture C. bicolor for ancestry at least, but I'm not very confident.

Hmm. Dunno why I said that. The colours fit, perhaps, but the shape of the column and the frilly edge of the lip are all wrong... nevermind.

[Mike O'C]

Originally Posted by orchidhunter

The first one looks like a Cattleya nobilior to me:

Did it flower from a smaller, mutant-looking pseudobulb instead of from the large leafy ones?

The second one is gorgeous, but I have no idea what it could be. Don't think it's a species, though.

The photo that accompanied Orchid Hunter's posting was labelled as Cattleya nobilior. It looks more like a Cattleya walkeriana to me. Cattleya nobilior is "more of a lady" and has her side lobes ("legs") crossed to enclose most of the column unlike this photo where the side lobes look more rudimentary and leave the column exposed.
Then of course there is Cattleya dolosa which the late Dr Fowlie regarded as a hybrid but which I think may be a valid species.
From the photo of the plant in question (Mick's plant) I do not think that it is Cattleya nobilior because the side lobes of the lip seem to fully enclose the column whereas in Cattleya nobilior the side lobes tend to flare out at the end exposing the the front part of the column.
I also seem to remeber that in Cattleya walkeriana the pseudobulb never developes where in Cattleya nobilior it does develope a bit and in Cattleya dolosa it does develope.
Be nice to hear more coments on this.
I don't think the second plant is a species either.
Keep well and kind regard.

[Mike O'C]

Originally Posted by Mick Gooch

I am wondering if these are species, if so what. I realise that a hybrid id would be more difficult - just wonder if they are species. I had the pink one but it died, want to replace it but have no idea about parentage or similar flowers

Mick,
I cannot say what your plants are but looking at the pink veining in the lip of the first one it looks very distinct. From my failing memory I seem to remember seeing this on a plant of mine that died when Noah came ooff the arc and which was a Mexican species called Laelia speciosa. Your flower looks very different to that species so I dont think that it is Laelia speciosa (Well we have excluded that!). The side lobes of the lip tend to look like they are folded over to enclose the column completely. In my opinion in Cattleya nobilior the ends of the side lobes do not overlap all the way (as your flower seems to do) and the tip of the column is exposed.
Your second flower has a frilly edged lip suggesting a Rhyncholaelia (Brassavola) digbyana influence.
Keep well and kind regards
Mike

[orchidhunter]

Originally Posted by Mike O'C

The photo that accompanied Orchid Hunter's posting was labelled as Cattleya nobilior. It looks more like a Cattleya walkeriana to me. Cattleya nobilior is "more of a lady" and has her side lobes ("legs") crossed to enclose most of the column unlike this photo where the side lobes look more rudimentary and leave the column exposed.

Thanks for clearing that up, Mike! You're the best! I photographed that plant at an orchid show, and it was labeled as C. nobilior, which I instinctively felt was a bit strange. But hey, what do I know, right? Once disinformation is out there, it's bound to spread. I'm glad that there is a way to tell them apart by the flowers, and not just the leaves. I shall change the notes accompanying my picture so that we don't lead any more people astray!

[Mike O'C]

Originally Posted by orchidhunter

Thanks for clearing that up, Mike! You're the best! I photographed that plant at an orchid show, and it was labeled as C. nobilior, which I instinctively felt was a bit strange. But hey, what do I know, right? Once disinformation is out there, it's bound to spread. I'm glad that there is a way to tell them apart by the flowers, and not just the leaves. I shall change the notes accompanying my picture so that we don't lead any more people astray!

Thanks for the compliment. I would check Jay Pfahl's IOSPE to see pictures of the species or if you have access to Vol 1 of "The Cattleyas and their Relatives" you can see pictures. Incidentally a man in Brazil has (correctly in my opinion) pointed out that the so called alba form of Cattleya walkeriana are not true Cattleya walkerianas as they bloom from a maturing pseudobulb.
Keep well and kind regards
Mike